Saturday's Results

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

I think Andy was most spot-on with how dismal Any Given Saturday looked winning the Brooklyn. You could have told me it was a quintet of $25k claimers coming down the stretch and I would have believed you. They looked pitiful. Maybe it's just a fluke, or maybe the current state of Pletchers barn took out the wow factor of AGS' win. Very interesting.

i think everyone saw the same thing, it was not impressive and as everyone else is saying his horses seem to have lost that extra something.

makes me wonder about Lawyer Ron who has had that extra something recently. will he still have it in the JCGC or will he also come back down to earth?

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

i think they made lr a project horse at t.a.p.... got em nice n fit and let him do the rest ...a great job..but when you have the amount of stock he has ..you can make a few high points in a not so great year..rags wasnt ready to come back..eh run em anyway.. the breeding alone will be worth millions.. only a guy like that that would enter a horse of that value in questionable shape..imo

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

i think they made lr a project horse at t.a.p.... got em nice n fit and let him do the rest ...a great job..but when you have the amount of stock he has ..you can make a few high points in a not so great year..rags wasnt ready to come back..eh run em anyway.. the breeding alone will be worth millions.. only a guy like that that would enter a horse of that value in questionable shape..imo

..see blue gress cat

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I know the issue was discussed here, but I wonder: aren't people on the backstretch discussing Pletcher's recent numbers?

Yes. They are.

Eric

[prudery]

Frankly I think Pletcher has been running short horses for a while now and perhaps the results --especially amongst his big guns-- are showing up now glaringly ... The closing kicks aforementioned not being there says short . All the spacings of workouts and races and babying and resting, and his shopping for a soft win when he should be producing a racehard horse just is not working . His so called fresh horses have nada where it counts and just look short . AGS's race was beyond flat--it was somnabulistic .

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Linny

I have not read this whole thread, pardon me if I repeat someone...

TP has dropped off in NY but in Jersey and Illinois he's maintained his usual figs. Has he changed help? Has the question of the condition of the racing/training surfaces been brought up?
Something clearly is amiss with the "A Team" that's based in NY. His numbers ot the elite level declined even while his stable has grown. To me that says theat they are getting hurt between races or before their debut. The condition of the tracks has been a hot button issue for horsemen and though Todd has not been extremely vocal, even in the wake of Rag's injury, I have to assume that it's playing a role.

Cardus: Yep, it was discussed regularly on the Spa backstretch and I'd guess it's still a topic of chat at Belmont.
BTW: I agree with your premise, but the The Leopard at anything less than 5-1 was a joke. Esp. after seeing Immortal Eyes choke in the Belmont MSW.

Regarding the so called track condition issue(s) of today -- this has been going on for years. For whatever reason, it's coming to life now and getting to the forefront. Regardless, Todd has given a quote here and there, but has been very indifferent, almost ambivalent. Why hasn't anyone come right out and asked him whether or not there is a problem?

There are a few who are vocal and who think there is a huge problem. There are others who think there is absolutely nothing wrong. This entire issue -- real or not -- has nothing to do with Pletcher's barn. That's why I think he hasn't been vocal at all.

Eric

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

I think Andy was most spot-on with how dismal Any Given Saturday looked winning the Brooklyn. You could have told me it was a quintet of $25k claimers coming down the stretch and I would have believed you. They looked pitiful. Maybe it's just a fluke, or maybe the current state of Pletchers barn took out the wow factor of AGS' win. Very interesting.

He didn't look great but then again how good could he have looked against that crew, especially when the only colt with any chance to beat him ran the worst of all?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

He didn't look great but then again how good could he have looked against that crew, especially when the only colt with any chance to beat him ran the worst of all?

The horse that ran last was the worst horse in the field. The horse that ran 3rd last time ran by him late with a tougher trip, so how was he at least not better?

Anyway, he could look great by tracking the speed, cruising by, and winning off easily. How he didn't is a mystery.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

The horse that ran last was the worst horse in the field. The horse that ran 3rd last time ran by him late with a tougher trip, so how was he at least not better?

Anyway, he could look great by tracking the speed, cruising by, and winning off easily. How he didn't is a mystery.

If all you ever look at is last race, yeah, maybe. Not exactly reflected in the $250k or so in the win pool. It's certainly easy to call the last place finisher the worst horse in the field a day after the race. Going into the race it can be just a bit tougher.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Come on man. Sightseeing had virtually no shot in there and is a pretty bad horse.

Well, cmorioles proclaims a day later he was obviously the worst horse going in. You agree? No big deal and congrats if you did.

If you saw this before the race and bet the right way, you got paid pretty good as the tri paid $65. Keying AGS over all ex-Sightseeing turned a 1/5 horse into 9/2 or so.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

I think TID and Linny are right.

Anyone who has a family to support and works for a corporation has done the same thing. And I'd guess it's not as easy for a mid-level DRF reporter who does an ok job to land somewhere else as it is for, say, a similarly successful pharmaceutical sales rep.

Crist and Beyer (especially Beyer) will say exactly what's on their mind (or it seems). Lots of Beyer's stuff I really disagree with but I'm glad he says it.

Nothing to gain and lots to lose is a tough job to have.

Crist and Beyer write opinion pieces, they are not reporters. The guys who report wont have much to tell folks if trainers (who they rely on for info) wont speak to them after they report or ask something that the trainer doesn't want published. if a guy like Grening had no access to TAP, McLaughlin, Shug, Violette, etc the would not have a job for long.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Linny

Crist and Beyer write opinion pieces, they are not reporters. The guys who report wont have much to tell folks if trainers (who they rely on for info) wont speak to them after they report or ask something that the trainer doesn't want published. if a guy like Grening had no access to TAP, McLaughlin, Shug, Violette, etc the would not have a job for long.

Well then what is the point of the job in the first place? Mouthpiece to the trainer?

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Well then what is the point of the job in the first place? Mouthpiece to the trainer?

yep...cant piss to many off otherwise a living doing the dream job is gone..cant ruffle feathers unless you are andy beyer or crist

[ELA]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

He didn't look great but then again how good could he have looked against that crew, especially when the only colt with any chance to beat him ran the worst of all?

AGS didn't look anywhere near good IMO -- regardless of the field he was in against. As said by another poster, he could have looked good no matter who he was in against. Individually he didn't look good.

Let me preface this with the fact that I wasn't an AGS fan. However, I was looking for this colt to show me something in the Dwyer. By way of background, forgetting that this was his first start back since the Derby, I wanted to see something. Was this colt going to move/go forward, or was he going to just kind of be where he was. Top tier colt or face in the crowd? Anyway, I liked what I saw. Now, you talk about the Haskell, what was that all about? This colt stepped forward big time. Talk all you want about the race being set up for him, and so on. I am talking about this colt getting stronger, his stride, and he moved forward off the Dwyer.

Be that as it may, yesterday, he didn't look at ease. He didn't look settled, comfortable, and his stride didn't look anywhere near as good as it looked in the Haskell or the Dwyer (forget about the time). He won. He was supposed to win -- period. I just don't think he looked good at all doing what he did.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to own a barn full of this horse, and I've never owned one who showed up to the dances that he's shown up for. But this is not about jealousy or ego either.

Eric

[philcski]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Well, cmorioles proclaims a day later he was obviously the worst horse going in. You agree? No big deal and congrats if you did.

If you saw this before the race and bet the right way, you got paid pretty good as the tri paid $65. Keying AGS over all ex-Sightseeing turned a 1/5 horse into 9/2 or so.

Here were the exacta prices with 1 MTP:

2-1 $4
2-3 $12
2-4 $23
2-5 $10

Let's look at it a different way... would you have taken even money on Sightseeing to beat the other 3? My personal feeling was NO WAY. You didn't have to have much handicapping insight or genius, just read and interpret what the board had. A $12 exacta doesn't sound all that great... but when it's the "most likely result" it's the same as betting a 5-1 shot to win.

Redboard disclaimer:
I played my normal win bet on the 2-3 combination and 2/3 of one on 2-4. The effective return on the race was about 7/2 for simply not liking Sightseeing. Didn't play the tri but a $65 return was more than generous.

You guys have left the reservation here, what's next beret posts?
My favorite things about the TAP stuff is there is no "re-break" as has been discussed. That horse someone else brought up earlier, from Gulfstream, pretty much describes his whole Gulfstream meet. Horses that are in a drive for 4 furlongs and still pull away from the field. On a similar type topic, Ive also been noticing that Dutrow is running more and more horses in New Jersey. Save for the NY breds, he seems to be entering less and less horses. Am I imagining this? Someone with some patience look into this....

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by GPK

Didn't I read somewhere that he said his crop of 2yo's this year just really isn't as good as years past?

Easy to say after they all bomb at the Spa..

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by philcski

Here were the exacta prices with 1 MTP:

2-1 $4
2-3 $12
2-4 $23
2-5 $10

Let's look at it a different way... would you have taken even money on Sightseeing to beat the other 3? My personal feeling was NO WAY. You didn't have to have much handicapping insight or genius, just read and interpret what the board had. A $12 exacta doesn't sound all that great... but when it's the "most likely result" it's the same as betting a 5-1 shot to win.

Redboard disclaimer:
I played my normal win bet on the 2-3 combination and 2/3 of one on 2-4. The effective return on the race was about 7/2 for simply not liking Sightseeing. Didn't play the tri but a $65 return was more than generous.

If you didn't like Sightseeing, the tri and/or ex was definitely the way to wager. I agree.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I don't understand, but perhaps you mistyped: did you mean that you played your normal exacta wager (not "win bet") on the 2-3?

No, I played a normal win bet size on the exacta (so in essence, I bet Tasteyville to "win" against the other 4, and played a dutch "win" on Helsinki for 2/3 of my normal win bet), or expressed differently, 10X my normal exacta wager.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

well ill jump on this..

a. his go to guy jv has been riding as if hes abit off ..sence his spills..

b. too many horses under his care .. micro managing 4 diffrent strings gets old
after so much success he may be letting his guys make more of the calls locally

c allday on vacation after some vets have gotten busted maybee the "extra attention" is lacking..

on a side note the non take down of the two at belmont was laughable...

how exactly did that horse stay up?? the inconsistency of what is taken down/left up is ridiculous. the rule is if the incident cost the other horse a placement in the judge of the stewards, the offender must be placed behind the horse they interfered with. now, I lack the "expert eye" the stewards apparently have but in my honest opinion the favorite would have finished 3rd or 4th not 6th as he did.