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#61
10-29-2007, 10:27 PM
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Personally I dont care what the euros or others think. They have no problem coming over for our races and the big money purses. They have no problems coming over and buying our breeding stock and yearlings. Sheik Mo has no problem since he is focused so much on the American market in recent years in both breeding and racing. They have no problem taking our money for their castoffs especially the ones who need medication like Lasix. They have no problem when so many of their riders (ex boys/girls) come over here looking for better opportunites. They never particularly cared about dirt racing until now. Maybe they should look into their own system of racing outside the top stakes where 1/2 the field isn't even trying in order to get a lower handicap. Our leading jockey is not on trial for race fixing. Maybe they should try to fix their own house where maidens run for crap purses. Maybe they should have theri own Breeders Cup and do with it whatever they want. Run it on turf, dirt, poly, fibresand, whatever. Remind Jim Bolger that we dont need them, racing in this country did just fine pre breeders cup and pre polytrack. I have no problem with the european tracks, horses, or horseman. As a matter of fact I like going over there and love Newmarket. But they have no right to tell us what to do or how to do it if they participate in a few select events a year. By the way will Mr. Bolger be boycotting the Dubai festival because of that dreaded dirt? 
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#62
10-29-2007, 10:31 PM
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Does everyone think drugs in horses is a new thing?
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#63
10-29-2007, 10:46 PM
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I would be more inclined to take it seriously if the remarks weren't made just after the superior euro's were shut out at the breeders cup by our inferior product, it just has the sound of sour grapes to me. It sounds like an attempt to blame America for this. maybe i'm reading to much into it but thats what I hear in those words. Why was this the moment for Mr. Bolger to offer remedies for US racing? Did he speak to the issue that George Washington didn't seem to belong in the race? was he really prepared for a 10F dirt race? I said over and over before the race that I didn't understand why the horse was running. It was the wrong distance, wrong surface, and the horse was obviously not currently at a competitive level with our top dirt routers. Okay if we are to listen and take this seriously, are you in favor of running all future Classics on polytrack? it just bothers me for anyone to use a particular breakdown to try to prove a complex point. what immediate conclusions should Americans have made about euro racing when Horatio Nelson was fatally injured in the Epsom Derby last year for the same connections? it was on turf and i guess no drugs were involved.
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#64
10-30-2007, 11:38 AM
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Jim Bolger is a nut case
Irish Trainer: Breeders' Cup Shouldn't Be Run on Dirt
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=41736
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#65
10-30-2007, 11:42 AM
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#66
10-30-2007, 12:02 PM
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Yeah lets keep listening to the Brits. Before you know it we'll all dress like this...
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#68
10-30-2007, 02:10 PM
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__________________
Avatar ~ Nicky Whelan  and now we murderers because we kill time
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#69
10-30-2007, 03:13 PM
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first of all big difference between brits and irish!! Bolger had said this before but obviously with the heightened media attention on dirt surrounding GWs passing, his comments and opinions have been re-raised. Its a controversial view and I dont neccessarily agree with it, but I certainly believe that he has every right to say it. Furthermore, Bolger has long campaigned for outriders at races over here, like ye guys do...
Each country has their own specific problems regarding racing and I think nations can learn from one another to try improve racing as a whole.
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#70
10-30-2007, 04:08 PM
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This will stir the pot even further, but as many of you won't read Racing Post, i thought i would post it here. I'm sure this will also get some strong opinions from both ends of the scale......
by Andrew Scutts . MICHAEL DICKINSON leapt to the defence of Monmouth Park on Tuesday, while at the same time expressing "my wish that last Saturday is the last time the Breeders' Cup races will be run on dirt". George Washington's death due to injuries sustained in the Classic, the second lowest Breeders' Cup attendance and a 43.5 per cent reduction year-on-year in on-course wagering, conspired to leave some observers questioning whether the event had lost its lustre. Dickinson, the legendary British jumps trainer who moved to the US 20 years ago, has patented Tapeta - Latin for 'carpet' - an artificial surface which competes for business from racecourses and trainers with Polytrack and Cushion Track, among others. His call for the end of Breeders' Cup races on traditional dirt surfaces must be viewed within that context, but his opinions on the dangers of running on a dirt track following heavy rain are widely held, including by Kempton's clerk of the course Brian Clifford. Dickinson said: "The science behind the dirt track is over 100 years old and hopelessly outdated. It is well documented, by numerous scientific papers, that wet dirt tracks cause more injuries. "This is reinforced by trainers' daily habits. On a typical US track, after rain there can be only four horses working. On day two of a sloppy track, there can still be only four horses working, but if day three is dry there will be 300 working. "Some have suggested that racing on the sloppy dirt track last Saturday was not visually thrilling but, even more important, the betting handle was down by a huge amount. It became more of a guessing game." Dickinson, though, suggested events at Monmouth Park constitute a one-off blip in the 24-year history of the Breeders' Cup. He said: "No dirt track can be good after three inches of rain. Anywhere, in fact - Cheltenham, Ascot or Newmarket - is going to be a mess. "Monmouth tried hard and put a lot of money into it, so you have to feel sorry for them. Only last week it was said we'd had the driest October in the US since 1923. "Their track superintendent, Bob Juliano, is a good friend, and he did the best job possible underdeplorable conditions." Dickinson added: "It was suggested that had it not been the Breeders' Cup, racing would have been cancelled, but that is not true - America races on sloppy tracks all the time. Only on very rare occasions do we cancel racing because of sloppy tracks." Next year, the Breeders' Cup will be staged at Santa Anita, with the seven 'dirt' races to be run on a synthetic surface - Cushion Track - for the first time. In July, the Breeders' Cup board will evaluate responses from racecourses interested in staging the 2009 and 2010 meetings, following their issuing of request for proposals (RFP) earlier this year. The RFP was sent to leading venues in the US and overseas, though William Farish jnr, Breeders' Cup chairman, said lastweek that he "couldn't envision holding the Breeders' Cup overseas". George Washington's ashes are to be buried at Coolmore's Ashford Stud in Kentucky, according to trainer Aidan O'Brien. He said on Tuesday: "The last 48 hours have been very tough on everyone. Obviously, losing George was very sad, and a big blow to us all. Conditions at Monmouth Park were completely against our horses. "Excellent Art and Achill Island both ran good races to finish second in the Mile and the Juvenile. We knew the weather and the ground wouldn't suit Dylan Thomas in the Turf, but we let him take his chance."
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Avatar ~ Nicky Whelan and now we murderers because we kill time
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#72
10-30-2007, 04:37 PM
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You have to give Aiden O'Brien credit for coming over here. Those guys are real sportsman. Rarely do you see top american horses go over there, which is sort of sad.
However, you can't really knock dirt for the problem. If 5 or 6 horses brokedown that day then you have an argument, but one horse brokedown and that is just a very sad reality of the sport. Horses breakdown. The fact is horses really aren't meant for racing on dirt or synthetic tracks. But maintaining a turf course is expensive and america decided they like dirt racing and that is what is primarily bred for. The important thing is that horseman are constantly looking for ways to make racing safer for horses. As for the in the sport, it is a problem because like anything you will eventually have unsound horses ting the breeding sheds, which we already see. It just means horses today are more fragile and can't run as frequently.
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#73
10-30-2007, 04:45 PM
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The ONLY ones to blame for the death of George Washington are his connections. A classic winning miler in europe, who was sterile, by the way, had absolutely nothing to gain by running in the classic. Especially not on dirt sloppy, or otherwise. Bad judgement by O'brien. Even worse was the jock continuing to beat the tar out of him when he was spinning his wheels going nowhere.
The connections got what they deserved (poor performances due to greed/arrogance). The only unfortunate part is that it came at the life expense of a super horse. How dare they lash out at every one and everything associated with American racing and the Breeder's Cup. That outfit busts up more expensive horseflesh than anyone. Talk about living in denial.
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#74
10-30-2007, 04:54 PM
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__________________
"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts
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#75
10-30-2007, 04:56 PM
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Ask his connections, they are blaming everything/everyone else.
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#76
10-30-2007, 04:59 PM
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__________________
"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts
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#77
10-30-2007, 05:02 PM
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I don't think anything or anyone is to blame.
Yes, in hindsight the Coolmore team shouldn't have run George OR Dylan, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. What this has raised is the safety of dirt when it becomes very wet. It certainly has opened my eyes. I didn't realise that when it got so sloppy that horses were basically running on the hard base below the actual 'dirt' surface until it was said by the vets who went to the aid of George Washington. George Was 'climbing' because of the horrific kickback there was on Saturday. Because of him 'climbing' he was more than likely hitting to ground much harder than usual. This may have led to the build up of his injury, it may not. But it certainly couldn't have helped. Rain is an external constraint, it's out of our hands, but if it rains THAT much on a dirt track, it can become dangerous. I think that is the main cause for concern.
__________________
Avatar ~ Nicky Whelan and now we murderers because we kill time
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#78
10-30-2007, 05:02 PM
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we already have owners who are afraid to run a horse more than a handful of times, and now every time a horse has an accident, they have to get the finger pointed at them for doing what the fans want?? how the hell does that make sense?
every year horses who generally run on turf attempt the dirt, here, dubai and elsewhere. sometimes they win, sometimes they lose, sometimes, sadly, they break down. anyone remember electrocutionist? how about moon ballad? giant's causeway, arazi, jo'burg, etc, etc... one horse out of the almost two hundred included in the two days of bc racing has an accident, a bad step, and the blame game begins. absolutely ridiculous. as fans, many of us who've followed this for years, we ought to know better. we know how up and down this game is, yet 'fans' come on here and play this game. and then we're horrified when non fans call us out, and ask how we can be fans of such a 'cruel' sport. and then we join in with the same bs. is it painful when a horse is lost? absolutely. but this does nothing to improve ANYTHING. that track didn't cause this. a bad step. nothing more. we've seen days of beautiful weather and a fast track, and have had more horses lost in one race than in this two day event. hell, two horses last year in the distaff alone had an injury, one fatal. considering the elements faced in those two days, i'd say those horses did pretty dammed well, a testament to their fitness.
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Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln
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#79
10-30-2007, 05:03 PM
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#80
10-30-2007, 05:04 PM
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almost afraid to ask, but is that good or bad??
__________________
Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln
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