Yikes - ATR Live

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Minor infractions are defended routinely here.

so you think anything coming out about dutrow was minor?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

I agree with Jerry Brown in that all vets should be published in the DRF. I would have to ask Simon on how many vets there are and if this is even plausible but I am of the understanding that a trainer has one vet, a guy like Pletcher probably has one guy that only does his horses at each track, I don't know. I could be very wrong about this.

Listing of vets is a waste of time. Some practices have as many as seven or eigth different vets, many of which cover multiple barns. I personally have had at least 12 vets this year work on my horses or give Lasix shots or something like that and it isn't like I have 100 horses. Guys like Allday who almost never give prerace meds or Lasix would never be listed. He pretty much does only diagonistic work now(thats where all the money is) in a number of different barns.

So who would be listed? The vet who last treated the horse? I just dont see how it would help.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Look I am not a journalist but sure seemed like there was a chance there to get even more information, when Allday calms down his lips will clam up. I was hoping to here things like, and I am paraphrasing from memory

Allday "I have see lots of things in that barn"

follow should have been "can you go into some of the things you have seen?"

you dont get many chances to find someone in a emotional state ready to say just about anything, once the press gets to him(if they do, not exactly woodward and bernstein here) he is going to downplay it and wont answer questions at that point.

I guess when you get your own radio show you'll be prepared.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Dont you think there is a good old boy type feeling amongst most people in the industry that allows this to go on? Its almost like you have to keep the secret or chance getting black balled out of the sport, if thats what its called. Honestly anyone who wagers serious money on this sport, especially after hearing that should have their head examined.

That is the biggest misconception that always gets brought up. If someone had PROOF that someone like Dutrow was doing something wrong don't ya think they would turn him in? There is the catch, the proof. Everyone saying that we know he is doing something or using the beyer figures of a horse he moved up isn't proof, it is conjecture. This good ol boys thing is a lot of bs. There are plenty of good ol boys who would love to see Dutrow or Frankel fry.

And football which gets more money bet on it than any other sport in our country is far more drug tainted and good ol boys infested than horseracing.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by HaloWishingwell

Mr.Byk,
In my opinion you let a good opportunity go. You had Dr.Allday coming clean about what he "claims" to have seen at the barn of Rick Dutrow. Why not follow up with some detailed information. He didn't clarify anything that the public didn't know already. Dutrow has a record of violations. That was the chance to find out exactly what went on. Apparently he didn't have much good to say about Frankel as well. Didn't he work for Frankel as well? Doesn't he currently or at one time work for Pletcher? I hope for his sake he wasn't dropping bombs without proof of his own involvement. Because his work with those three characters doesn't bring out confidence in him with the bettting public. Hopefully he'll be back on the show and elaborate on "what he saw".

What is with the red?

[TheSpyder]

Chuck,

You didn't get your 3-D glasses?

Way to go on the third place finish today...
Spyder

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I guess when you get your own radio show you'll be prepared.

Maybe Steve can get him back on and waterboard him.....

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Isn't anyone going to defend Dutrow here, or is the only person to defend Dutrow is he himself?

Why does he need defending?

What do you think he's done, other than the things he's been punished for like everyone else?

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

That is the biggest misconception that always gets brought up. If someone had PROOF that someone like Dutrow was doing something wrong don't ya think they would turn him in? There is the catch, the proof. Everyone saying that we know he is doing something or using the beyer figures of a horse he moved up isn't proof, it is conjecture. This good ol boys thing is a lot of bs. There are plenty of good ol boys who would love to see Dutrow or Frankel fry.

And football which gets more money bet on it than any other sport in our country is far more drug tainted and good ol boys infested than horseracing.

Very well said, and I agree completely. I met Dr. Allday, for the the first time, about 20 years ago. He was still working in the harness business, and was working with Dr. Ken Seeber (who, ironically, gave up his vet practice and became a harness trainer -- training for Lou Guida).

Anyway, I listened to the show. I found it just as interesting as everyone else, thought provoking, wanting for more -- and of course asking "what's next". I think something very positive can come from this. However, I also think something very negative can come from this as well.

There is also some irony here. First, as mentioned, we all know there are two sides to every story. Obviously, in hearing this one side -- which might be slanted or biased to a some extent -- this is side that everyone so very much wants to be true. It reinforces what everyone has been saying and what they've "known" to be true for so very long. How much sour grapes and so on, nobody will ever know.

Be that as it may -- before Dr. Allday's comments, in the past, when he was Dutrow's vet, all the cheating that everyone says, knows, believes, etc. Dutrow did -- how many people believed that Dr. Allday wasn't involved? He took plenty of pot shots here, and at other BB's. He was talked about just as much as Dutrow. At one time, you couldn't talk about Dutrow without mentioning Dr. Allday. Now, people will listen to him as opposed to criticize him, because now they like what he is saying. I can understand why.

Now, we want to listen to him. People who had no idea what they were talking about commented before about Dr. Allday and his involvement with Dutrow, and his success -- yet it was always common knowledge to innumerable people in the industry that Dr. Allday wasn't known to pre-race horses, but was an expert in diagnostic work, and the work the products he's developed.

I want, just like everyone else, to have something come from this -- if it's true and the proof comes out. However, to me, after reading, hearing, etc. all of this -- it almost seems like a little redboarding to me.

Eric

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

What if you are still winning despite any supposed cheating? Why would you stop? Did people stop buying stocks after the Enron mess? Did people suddenly stop betting on basketball because a ref was caught fixing the games?

yes. would say its a case of buyer beware though, no one should complain about cheating though at this point with the mounting evidence its a rampant issue.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cardus

It would be interesting to hear what he has to say about Pletcher.

Veterinary medical ethics recognizes the privileged and confidential nature of the doctor-client-patient relationship.

When Dr. Richardson at New Bolton was so forthcoming about Barbaro, it was because the owners generously gave permission to discuss Barbaro's case.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cardus

What positives can come from this? What negatives?

I think that in situations like this, they often tend to take on a life of their own. On one hand, this can potentially be a catalyst for change, for progress, etc. It might be now and could be the start of something. Or it could be a wake up call, and start some sort of slow, perhaps "covert" process. Of course, this could only happen if, and only if, all of this is coupled with proof. Perhaps obtaining the proof becomes a journey, not just a destination.

On the other hand, I don't know what can happen, but I think it could be bad. It wouldn't be the first time. There is so much negativity in and around this business, and the media, the public, and our own industry does what it can to put much of that in the forefront. Unless someone, or something that happens, is going to advocate for the industry -- and not against a former friend, client, etc. -- then perhaps this can also spiral out of control. There could be a great deal of finger pointing, allegations, and more of the like. What could come from that? More vets coming forward? More accusations? Will that be hollow? Or will it have substance? If it's coupled with proof, great.

But what happened to Mario Sclafani and Braulio Baeza started with accusations. Sure, there was more to it, but it started from -- and I mean no offense to anyone here who knows the person, and I ask that nobody use his name -- a person who comments were made to, who lost some bets, etc. Sure, we all know there were political aspects to this, but there were two people at the end of all those negative reports, accusations, etc. One was a hard working guy, liked by his peers, people in the industry, and people on the racetrack. He wasn't a public figure. Mario Sclafani was butchered. The other -- Braulio Baeza, a Hall of Fame member, who everyone liked and respected. His reputation was damaged beyond repair.

But what are we really talking about here? Public perception is already low. It could get lower as a result of something like this. This could potentially cast a very long, wide and bad net. Of course I hope it does not, and only hope that if anything, good comes from this. I guess we'll soon see.

Eric

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Was what Allday said conjecture, or proof?

Sounds like he has proof to me.

[Zaf]

agree ,sounds like proof to me.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I'm aware of that, but since he indirectly indicted two men for whom he used to work, I thought it would be interesting to hear his thoughts on Pletcher, for whom he has worked, too.

He certainly seemed to have an axe to grind against the people he mentioned.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Why is public perception of racing low? I don't think it's because there is a widespread, general population perception that racing is conducted by "cheats," to use Allday's word about one trainer. It's people like us who are much more sensitive to issues like this that are troubled.

i don't think a lot of people think it's populated by cheats. just that there are cheaters out there, and hopefully they'll start cracking down.
savvy bettors use all info, whether the perception is that a trainer is a cheat or not, they'll use their money accordingly.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by ddthetide

excellent show yesterday!

DD.. Thanks very much. Not sure how this one will be 'topped'..

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

theres a fine line between informative/entertaining & personally damaging/slander.. actually it's not so fine.. good judgement prevailed

BF.. Appreciate your interpretation..

Originally Posted by TheSpyder

You know, too often people who report the news would take the opportunity to sensationalize such a scoop but you did not and kept your calm after realizing your show, maybe for the first time, had become the news. Your handling of the bomb dropped in your lap was professional and serves as an example of how all news reporters should approach a such an event.

Spyd.. Not necessarily thrilled about being part of the story. Appreciate your view of how I handled the situation.. Thx..

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by HaloWishingwell

Mr.Byk, In my opinion you let a good opportunity go. You had Dr. Allday coming clean about what he "claims" to have seen at the barn of Rick Dutrow. Why not follow up with some detailed information. He didn't clarify anything that the public didn't know already. Dutrow has a record of violations. That was the chance to find out exactly what went on. Apparently he didn't have much good to say about Frankel as well. Didn't he work for Frankel as well? Doesn't he currently or at one time work for Pletcher? I hope for his sake he wasn't dropping bombs without proof of his own involvement. Because his work with those three characters doesn't bring out confidence in him with the bettting public. Hopefully he'll be back on the show and elaborate on "what he saw".

I disagree that there was more to be gained by pressing the situation for further revelations. I'll repeat again that Sirius has been clear with us that they will not be tolerant of another potential lawsuit. Dr. Allday has been the featured vet for the weekly 'Horse Health Today' segment from before I started on the show, and will come on whenever asked. I think after interviewing him on more than 75 occasions, I believe have a good feel for what buttons I can push with him and which I can't. I have asked him on several occasions for clarifications of events which may have involved illegalities, and he answers with extreme caution.

You might want to note that comments like he made Friday would not come on that forum if he didn't have a certain comfort level with the show as a setting for his call. He will say exactly what he wants to say, and if I had to guess what his objective was Friday, I'd say it was to fuel further investigation into the Wild Desert affair specifically. Anything he said or alleged, he will back up with proof. He did offer his records to any authority that wants to see them...

There are few major barns that Dr. Allday has not worked with at one time or another. He works on all of the Pletcher horses.. As well as Dale Romans'. He has done work for Frankel. His comments regarding Frankel were related to him taking on the saddling responsibilities for Wild Desert in the Queen's Plate without knowing much about what was going on and that being slightly irresponsible on Bobby's part.

Appreciate you listening to the show and sharing your thoughts.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Cardus

It would be interesting to hear what he has to say about Pletcher.

He has unbridled respect and admiration for Pletcher as a horseman and the way Todd runs his vast operation. And says so all the time. Which should come as no surprise obviously..

[Payson Dave]

Steve,
IMHO your show is great and the Friday show was no exception....fwiw, I thought that you handled things very well...One comment on the matter is that claiming to have proof is not quite the same as actually producing/providing it...and that still remains to be done...without all the facts it can be a mistake for anyone to rush to judgement.