My Prediction for Santa Anita

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Nobody is debating the kickback at Santa Anita. There are rocks in the track. That is why the jocks are wearing the protective masks. The jocks say that at Santa Anita it feels like they are in a sand storm right now. It's really bad.

There is definitely a problem at Santa Anita. There is no doubt about that. The only point that ArlJim and myself are trying to make is that in general there is much less of an issue with kickback on synthetic tracks as compared to regular dirt.

One issue that could be a concern with synthetic tracks is the long term health risks of swallowing rubber and synthetic fibers. The chances are that most come-from-behind horses are going to swallow some dirt whether they are on a synthetic track or a natural track. I can't tell you what the long-term health consequences are of swallowing rubber and synthetic fibers but it seems like it certainly could not be good.

I would not worry about that a bit. Pass right through. I would be much more worried about swallowing dirt.

[The Bid]

My agenda is the truth.

Gomez says that and straps on a hockey visor, lets just stick to the facts.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Well they won't be the first animal on the track to swallow a rubber.

jamie sanders?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Here is the latest update. As I said earlier, they are optimistic that the polymers developed by the Australian guy will allow the track to drain. He did a demonstration yesterday for some owners and trainers and they were impressed.
Even if this stuff works and the track does drain properly, I still think the track is awful. It wasn't great at Oak Tree but it was definitely better at Oak Tree than it is now. As bad as the dirt track was at Santa Anita the last few years, I still think it was better than what they have now.

Here is the link to the story with the latest update:

http://www.drf.com/news/article/91578.html

[The Bid]

Rupe, thanks for posting that

Why is the guy fixing cushion track a representitive of proride?

What significance does a bottle of water on a small isolated area of racetrack have with an inch of rain on a mile of racetrack?

Its pretty obvious once it rains out there you guys are doomed. Hopefully Santa Anita moves quickly to install a highgrade dirt once racing is cancelled again.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Rupe, thanks for posting that

Why is the guy fixing cushion track a representitive of proride?

What significance does a bottle of water on a small isolated area of racetrack have with an inch of rain on a mile of racetrack?

Its pretty obvious once it rains out there you guys are doomed. Hopefully Santa Anita moves quickly to install a highgrade dirt once racing is cancelled again.

To answer your first question, the people from Cushion Track tried to fix the track and they were not successful. They worked on the track for over 2 weeks in December to try to make it drain and their efforts failed. So I guess they talked to this guy from Proride and he thought he might be able to fix it, so they are giving it a shot.

To answer your 2nd question, in theory it shouldn't matter the size of the area that they test. If they pour an inch of water over a 50 square foot area or a 200 square foot area, if it drains then it drains. If it doesn't, then it doesn't. But as I said before, even if this new liquid solves the drainage problem, the surface is still horrible. It is rock hard underneath and loose on top. Alot of horses aren't handling the surface but worse than that, they are coming out of the races with injuries. At Del Mar, there were alot of horses that didn't handle the surface, but at least the surface was pretty safe. Most of the horses were coming out of races in one piece which is more than I can say for Santa Anita.

[The Bid]

Thanks Rupe

There is cause for concern anytime 12 claimers are breaking the sound barrier.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Thanks Rupe

There is cause for concern anytime 12 claimers are breaking the sound barrier.

Yes, I agree 100%. At Oak Tree they were running very fast too but the track seemed to have a little more bounce to it than now. But even though the track looked alright at Oak Tree, it wasn't alright. One of my trainers had two different horses win and both horses came out of their races with fractures. In both cases, the fractures weren't discovered until a few days later. When they run that fast, something has to give. When they are running that fast, you know that the track has to be hard underneath.

And both of those horses were really good horses and really sound horses. They weren't claimers. They were both stakes horses.

[The Bid]

Pshew, thats a shame. Its tough when any of them get injured, having a couple sound stakes horses get hurt would be a hard pill to swallow. Especially when you know the sole reason for the injuries are the track thats been mandated by the CHRB. Hopefully they get the situation resolved in a hurry for you guys.

The agena's for those that might actually have to change
their handicapping techniques... they might a actualy have
to show a little ingenuity is
indeed hard to overcome.

Extinction is possible for those not able to adapt.
Good luck to the species.
And congrats to those that can play with the
cards they are dealt. Dirt or syn.

[Riot]

Here is the latest update. As I said earlier, they are optimistic that the polymers developed by the Australian guy will allow the track to drain. He did a demonstration yesterday for some owners and trainers and they were impressed.

This is pretty interesting stuff, the website for ProRide: www.prorideracing.com

They installed it last year at a TB training facility in Louisville.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I would not worry about that a bit. Pass right through. I would be much more worried about swallowing dirt.

not necessarily.
they caution you about feeding hay from the ground, especially if you have particularly sandy soil, as a horse can injest a fair amount of sand over time and develop sand colic.
i also read about a horse who was a cribber-they had used belts as fencing material, and the horse damn near died. they removed an almost soccer-ball sized ball of rubber from his gut-it didn't pass thru, but kept getting larger the more he nibbled.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

not necessarily.
they caution you about feeding hay from the ground, especially if you have particularly sandy soil, as a horse can injest a fair amount of sand over time and develop sand colic.
i also read about a horse who was a cribber-they had used belts as fencing material, and the horse damn near died. they removed an almost soccer-ball sized ball of rubber from his gut-it didn't pass thru, but kept getting larger the more he nibbled.

Horses cannot breath through their mouths, so I doubt much is getting in through the mouth and then swallowed during or just after a race, as the epiglottis is closed down over the esophagus so the horse can breath. So ingestion isn't anything I'd worry about, be it synthetic, turf or dirt.

Nostrils are a concern, obviously. Vets routinely find alot of dirt in the trachea and larger bronchi after races, but particles of any composition (dirt, smog, AWT, dust, whatever) have to be very, very tiny (there is a particular micron size) to get further down the airways than the "supply tubes".

From the little available that I have read vets are seeing less mucus post-race days on the synthetics vs dirt (mucus is the body bringing irritants up and out of the larger airways), and less stuff in the larger airways. Maybe Chuck can comment on what his track vets have seen.

Obviously any dry, powdery surface (think dust) is a greater threat for stuff getting deeper into the lungs than a damper, heavier, larger particle (which gets caught upon inhalation in the sinuses and upper airways as it should be).

Sand isn't going to go very far generally, it's a big particle as far as the airways are concerned.

I, too, would be more worried about the dried manure, organic matter, fungal spores, etc in dirt than in a synthetic, if inhaled deeply.

I removed an intact set of pantyhose from a Labrador's stomach and intestine once

Originally Posted by Danzig

not necessarily.
they caution you about feeding hay from the ground, especially if you have particularly sandy soil, as a horse can injest a fair amount of sand over time and develop sand colic.
i also read about a horse who was a cribber-they had used belts as fencing material, and the horse damn near died. they removed an almost soccer-ball sized ball of rubber from his gut-it didn't pass thru, but kept getting larger the more he nibbled.

Watch when a horse eats.
They grab with the big rubbery lips
and they pull. Sometimes just grass tears off.
But some of the time some of the grass with roots
also comes up. All kinds of crud hang on the roots.

Horses take in all sorts of crud.
And they colic more often when supplemented
with the very high calorie stuff, too much grain and
sweet crap.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but do you bet on a regular basis?

Last bet. BC Turf.
No actually last bet I lost to C. Simon.

But spring nears. And my ears prick.
Why? Do I need to be more addicted
because I wait for warm weather and more
tracks I am familiar with and a betting public that
bets more for fun.

Bad move? Holding off in the winter?

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I don't care if you don't bet ever again. I just found it humorous that someone who admittingly bets not so often was commenting on how gamblers need to adjust their thinking.

I really take you about as seriously as you take me.

I will take note that not betting in the winter, is not betting often.
I must be a year around gambler to understand wagering.
Arlington Jim basically said the same thing about betting
surfaces.
Guess he does
not wager in the Winter either.

Thanks for your stellar insight as always.
Even though neither of us care.
Yours
Peegarden.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Mumtaz

Horses cannot breath through their mouths, so I doubt much is getting in through the mouth and then swallowed during or just after a race, as the epiglottis is closed down over the esophagus so the horse can breath. So ingestion isn't anything I'd worry about, be it synthetic, turf or dirt.

Nostrils are a concern, obviously. Vets routinely find alot of dirt in the trachea and larger bronchi after races, but particles of any composition (dirt, smog, AWT, dust, whatever) have to be very, very tiny (there is a particular micron size) to get further down the airways than the "supply tubes".

From the little available that I have read vets are seeing less mucus post-race days on the synthetics vs dirt (mucus is the body bringing irritants up and out of the larger airways), and less stuff in the larger airways. Maybe Chuck can comment on what his track vets have seen.

Obviously any dry, powdery surface (think dust) is a greater threat for stuff getting deeper into the lungs than a damper, heavier, larger particle (which gets caught upon inhalation in the sinuses and upper airways as it should be).

Sand isn't going to go very far generally, it's a big particle as far as the airways are concerned.

I, too, would be more worried about the dried manure, organic matter, fungal spores, etc in dirt than in a synthetic, if inhaled deeply.

I removed an intact set of pantyhose from a Labrador's stomach and intestine once

yeah, no doubt the lungs would be a larger concern when actually racing-my part about ingestion was in regard to pg talking about swallowing dirt.
hopefully they won't find any health issues down the road due to the track--of course all that smog in cali hasn't hurt them, so maybe they're pretty resilient!!

[The Bid]

Oh they will find something in time. These morons didnt have the sense to test any of this **** prior to installation. We just decided to wing it, good idea. Idiots

Originally Posted by Danzig

yeah, no doubt the lungs would be a larger concern when actually racing-my part about ingestion was in regard to pg talking about swallowing dirt.
hopefully they won't find any health issues down the road due to the track--of course all that smog in cali hasn't hurt them, so maybe they're pretty resilient!!

Since you mentioned cribbing Z.
I figured out a really neat thing
that works down here in the barn
my wife has her horse.

If you do own a horse, or ever own one
I got something that really works well
that would probably work all year in warmer
weather areas. On Rubber, wood, whatever.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Danzig

yeah, no doubt the lungs would be a larger concern when actually racing-my part about ingestion was in regard to pg talking about swallowing dirt.
hopefully they won't find any health issues down the road due to the track--of course all that smog in cali hasn't hurt them, so maybe they're pretty resilient!!

Air Quality Index

Dallas Texas 30AQI

New York, N.Y. 45AQI

L.A. California 31AQI

Little Rock, Arkansas 'Well I can tell you it's real clear today so I guess the # would be 15, yes today is the 15th.

The air in L.A. is better than you think.