Wayne Catalano-Frank Calebrese

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Scav

How many people have the capital that Calabrese has? You realize how much that dude is worth right?

2ndly, he don't care about losing money, he just wants to be the big magaffer.....

The third is something I heard yesterday...He's making a ton betting on his winners and enjoying the IRS relief from losing claimers below what he paid

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Jesus, you're tired.

You're crying about numbers that a guy racks up. I continue to say that it makes perfect sense given who he is running his horses against.

So your question is terribly irrelevant to what I'm saying, and my question about which races exactly they shouldn't be winning remains terribly relevant.

I'm not particularly concerned with his final winning percentage as opposed to other trainers -- I'm concerned with all this hemming and hawing about the fact that he is winning so much, when nobody is taking the time to figure out that nearly all of these horses should be winning their races in the first place. That leads to the big numbers, obviously, which I've already covered.

Wow we're on another level of homerism here, folks.

You're right. There is nothing odd about the 70% win clip because these horses were supposed to win. And, as we all know, the best horse on paper wins 70% of the time.

Who can argue with this guy? He's right all of the time!! He got you HRTV on Comcast, people!!!

[Scav]

Originally Posted by GBBob

The third is something I heard yesterday...He's making a ton betting on his winners and enjoying the IRS relief from losing claimers below what he paid

Exactly. The dude sends it in.

I was in back of him last year a couple times, $500Win bets with $100 exacta box savers with his horses. he is no joke.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Wow we're on another level of homerism here, folks.

You're right. There is nothing odd about the 70% win clip because these horses were supposed to win. And, as we all know, the best horse on paper wins 70% of the time.

Who can argue with this guy? He's right all of the time!! He got you HRTV on Comcast, people!!!

Coach, he is running better horses against bad competition in 6 horse races, how much trouble can they get into out there in a 6 horse race?

Have you see the horses that he has been beating, they shouldn't be at the levels that they are at.

Originally Posted by Scav

Coach, he is running better horses against bad competition in 6 horse races, how much trouble can they get into out there in a 6 horse race?

Have you see the horses that he has been beating, they shouldn't be at the levels that they are at.

Scav how many times have you seen a horse take a drop in class from a top trainer and run completely out of the money?

This guy has had two off the board finishes out of 17 starts. That's unbelievable no matter how big the class drop is. It's suspicious as hell.

[SentToStud]

Anyone have numbers for Bennie Stutts? I have my suspicions about the guy.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Wow we're on another level of homerism here, folks.

You're right. There is nothing odd about the 70% win clip because these horses were supposed to win. And, as we all know, the best horse on paper wins 70% of the time.

Who can argue with this guy? He's right all of the time!! He got you HRTV on Comcast, people!!!

Again, you're entirely more concerned with taking pathetic, and frankly unclever, potshots at me than you are with actually making any sense or backing up what you're saying instead of just whining about numbers without worrying about how they end up where they are.

It's a time-tested tactic. If you've got nothing, call people names, make an eyeliner joke, and pretend that it makes you even remotely close to being right.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Scav how many times have you seen a horse take a drop in class from a top trainer and run completely out of the money?

This guy has had two off the board finishes out of 17 starts. That's unbelievable no matter how big the class drop is. It's suspicious as hell.

I understand 'your' suspicion because of your unfamiliarity with these guys. I have followed them for the last 6 years. I am not saying that these guys are saints, but Illinois does have testing, and from all accounts, it is pretty strong. I think they test all winners RIGHT after the race.

Every year Arlington puts up the silks of the leading owner in the lobby, for all to see, Calabrese has his picture taken in front of them daily

Trust me, keep on following it, because in about 3-4 weeks, all these horses are going to be running back, and there will be major scores to be had in the Tri's and P3's, where alot of their money goes in.....

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

They're not the only guys effectively playing the claiming game out there.

any that you know of that are above 20%.

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Again, you're entirely more concerned with taking pathetic, and frankly unclever, potshots at me than you are with actually making any sense or backing up what you're saying instead of just whining about numbers without worrying about how they end up where they are.

It's a time-tested tactic. If you've got nothing, call people names, make an eyeliner joke, and pretend that it makes you even remotely close to being right.

A sissy saying I'm crying and whining. Classic.

He's got the highest winning percentage by 6% and you're DEFENDING him. Either you're brain dead or you're planning on working in the industry...oh wait...you've already started in the industry.

NEVERMIND.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

A sissy saying I'm crying and whining. Classic.

He's got the highest winning percentage by 6% and you're DEFENDING him. Either you're brain dead or you're planning on working in the industry...oh wait...you've already started in the industry.

NEVERMIND.

I have no love for Catalano being here and winning the way he's winning. I've been betting less this year because I don't enjoy playing his horses at short prices, and I've yet to be confident in playing against them.

I'm not "defending" him, I'm pointing out the bloody obvious facts that continue to elude you in regards to his horses mostly towering over the fields they are facing.

Originally Posted by Scav

I understand 'your' suspicion because of your unfamiliarity with these guys. I have followed them for the last 6 years. I am not saying that these guys are saints, but Illinois does have testing, and from all accounts, it is pretty strong. I think they test all winners RIGHT after the race.

Every year Arlington puts up the silks of the leading owner in the lobby, for all to see, Calabrese has his picture taken in front of them daily

Trust me, keep on following it, because in about 3-4 weeks, all these horses are going to be running back, and there will be major scores to be had in the Tri's and P3's, where alot of their money goes in.....

Scav..you should know that the testing available is not up to speed with advances in medicine.

But really this goes beyond suspicions of doping..it is unbelievable that they're winning at a 70% clip with all that can go wrong in a race, especially with claimers. It's simply naive and shortsighted to pronounce they're winning simply by reading a condition book properly and dropping horses in class. They aren't the only ones who do this and they're doing it with astronomical success that hasn't been seen by the likes of the greatest trainers in the history of the game.

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I have no love for Catalano being here and winning the way he's winning. I've been betting less this year because I don't enjoy playing his horses at short prices, and I've yet to be confident in playing against them.

I'm not "defending" him, I'm pointing out the bloody obvious facts that continue to elude you in regards to his horses mostly towering over the fields they are facing.

And you're once again oblivious to the fact that they're not the only ones doing this and they are CRUSHING every trainer in the nation in win percentage.

Sorry but it's not black and white on every issue.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

And you're once again oblivious to the fact that they're not the only ones doing this and they are CRUSHING every trainer in the nation in win percentage.

Sorry but it's not black and white on every issue.

It doesn't need to be.

My take on this is no more black & white then seeing a huge number with limited starters who are for the most part legit, short-priced favorites grabbed up with essentially unlimited capital and nearly zero regard for whether they win or lose money at a meet, and assuming they cheat, which is what you've done.

I'll stick with backing it up with some logical analysis, and you stick with "43% OMGZ" and we'll just call it even.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

any that you know of that are above 20%.

KLesaris
K Ziade
Ness
S Beattie
Levine
Assmussen
Puype for Bone

they are out there....

[SCUDSBROTHER]

These races aren't interesting,or competitive. Whether you like these guys or not, it's not good for this industry to be running races for trainers/owners (instead of for the players.) These races are about as useful as the qualifying races they have in harness. From an entertainment value point of view
( which doesn't seem important in this industry) they are nothing. That's a problem. You're not gunna grow a fan base if people are bored at the track. Their supposed to pay these people to compete. If they don't force them into a spot where they must compete, then it's basically giving money out for doing nothing useful.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

KLesaris
K Ziade
Ness
S Beattie
Levine
Assmussen
Puype for Bone

they are out there....

I assumed he was talking about in Chicago, I know there are others that do it elsewhere.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I assumed he was talking about in Chicago, I know there are others that do it elsewhere.

Oh no, sorry, I was just talking about the game in general and that it can be played with the right amount of money and the right people. Autrey is phenomenal at it as well.

[SentToStud]

Where are the Bennie Stutts numbers?

[MisterB]