Inspirational and depressing at the same time

[prudery]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

None of these top runners was fashionably-bred; in fact, they were all considered a bit 'down-market' in their breeding and were treated accordingly by the top tier breeders. They got the mares who were out of the half-sisters to the good runners instead of the half-sisters themselves, that sort of thing. Captain Bodgit died young, too.

Actually, Ann, it was Saint Ballado-- the Captain's SIRE that died young ....

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

None of these top runners was fashionably-bred; in fact, they were all considered a bit 'down-market' in their breeding and were treated accordingly by the top tier breeders. They got the mares who were out of the half-sisters to the good runners instead of the half-sisters themselves, that sort of thing. Captain Bodgit died young, too.

The Captain is alive and kicking.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Northern Afleet should not be included with IC, VE, or SG. Outside of Afleet Alex he has no top class runners. He ranked in the 60's on last years sire list. he is fair at best as a sire

You missed the point. I was comparing Skip Away, Behrens, Silver Charm and company to other horses that began their stud careers in 1998 and 1999. Considering the relatively low quality mares that Northern Afleet saw in Florida when he first started (I believe he was standing for as low as $5,000), he has been an "overachiever" as a sire. He has consistently "moved up" his mares (AEI of 1.63 v. CI of 1.43), so it will be interesting to see what he does with the better opportunities afforded him recently; his first KY-conceived crop of horses (on a $12,500 stud fee) hit the ground this year.

[Travis Stone]

I believe it was Formal Gold and Will's Way who battled down the stretch in the Whitney? That was the summer of great finishes at Saratoga.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

You missed the point. I was comparing Skip Away, Behrens, Silver Charm and company to other horses that began their stud careers in 1998 and 1999. Considering the relatively low quality mares that Northern Afleet saw in Florida when he first started (I believe he was standing for as low as $5,000), he has been an "overachiever" as a sire. He has consistently "moved up" his mares (AEI of 1.63 v. CI of 1.43), so it will be interesting to see what he does with the better opportunities afforded him recently; his first KY-conceived crop of horses (on a $12,500 stud fee) hit the ground this year.

He is a weak sire. His number of stakes winners for a 15 year old stallion with 7 crops of racing age is 16 which is not good. He has had one horse of note in 7 crops. His 1st and 3rd leading money winners are out of the same mare(who needs to get a lot of the credit). His AEI and CI's are skewed by the fact he stood in FL where many mares havent earned a lot of money, especially in relation to slot fueled purses elsewhere, but are still solid producers. I dont think he got much for mares in KY except the older or cheaper ones. Unfortunately for me I have 3 coming next year for a client unless a miracle happens and he can sell them. I guess I may be biased but after 7 crops I would like to see a whole lot more. It wasnt like he was standing in Wyoming.

I know Skip Away probably had better mares to start out but his numbers are better than NA, and personally I think SC is a better sire also. Beherns, notsomuch

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by justindew

I found this over at DRF.com. I think this horse got robbed of Horse of the Year in 1997. He faced Skip Away six times, and beat him in four of those races.

112 debut Beyer? Will we ever see that again? And he raced nine times in 1997, racing at least once a month from February through September.

One of my favorites of all time.

http://community.drf.com/formblog/files/formal_gold.pdf

A colt who actually went thru his conditions how novel a thought

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He is a weak sire. His number of stakes winners for a 15 year old stallion with 7 crops of racing age is 16 which is not good. He has had one horse of note in 7 crops. His 1st and 3rd leading money winners are out of the same mare(who needs to get a lot of the credit). His AEI and CI's are skewed by the fact he stood in FL where many mares havent earned a lot of money, especially in relation to slot fueled purses elsewhere, but are still solid producers. I dont think he got much for mares in KY except the older or cheaper ones. Unfortunately for me I have 3 coming next year for a client unless a miracle happens and he can sell them. I guess I may be biased but after 7 crops I would like to see a whole lot more. It wasnt like he was standing in Wyoming.

I know Skip Away probably had better mares to start out but his numbers are better than NA, and personally I think SC is a better sire also. Beherns, notsomuch

Chuck go look at the book NA was bred to like 6 years ago..I swear some of them weren't TB's.. I reviewed his entire book once Afleet Alex started to emerge and I didn't see a single quality mare out of the 40 to 50 he had been bred to.. I think you have to wait and see what happens now that he has some sponsorship.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I know Skip Away probably had better mares to start out but his numbers are better than NA

I guess we can agree to disagree on Northern Afleet as a sire. To my way of thinking, if he's on the top 100 sire list given the opportunities that he's had, I have a hard time calling him "weak."

As for Skip Away, he's never had a horse of significance, his AEI (1.32) is below his CI (1.43), and his yearlings and 2YOs sell for next to nothing, so I fail to see how "his numbers are better than" Northern Afleet.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I guess we can agree to disagree on Northern Afleet as a sire. To my way of thinking, if he's on the top 100 sire list given the opportunities that he's had, I have a hard time calling him "weak."

As for Skip Away, he's never had a horse of significance, his AEI (1.32) is below his CI (1.43), and his yearlings and 2YOs sell for next to nothing, so I fail to see how "his numbers are better than" Northern Afleet.

take away AA and what do you have? He is a one horse wonder. 571 foals and 16 stakes winners and 13 stakes place horses. that is a miserable number. This is after 7 crops. That is very weak. We arent talking graded stakes horses, just stakes horses. Including all those bs calder stakes. If not for the mother of AA and UM he would have virtually no top flight horses. He is not a Bad sire but he is not very good yet and projecting success based on getting better mares is dangerous.

SA has had more graded stakes winners, stakes winners and stakes placed horses than NA and the last few years he has had foal crops of 50 or less. he aint good but it is hard to make a case that NA is better.

Maybe I am being elitist but to my thinking you could breed to billy goats and be on the top 100 sire list

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Chuck go look at the book NA was bred to like 6 years ago..I swear some of them weren't TB's.. I reviewed his entire book once Afleet Alex started to emerge and I didn't see a single quality mare out of the 40 to 50 he had been bred to.. I think you have to wait and see what happens now that he has some sponsorship.

16 stakes winners out of 571 foals is really weak. He should be a $4000 regional sire.

[slotdirt]

Where are we getting this 571 foal number? According to the Stallion Register, Northern Afleet has sired 348 horses of racing age, 244 runners, 70 percent winners, and 14 stakes winners. Skip Away's numbers are pretty similar. Considering - again - the mares one probably got versus the other, I'd suggest Northern Afleet has done pretty darn well for himself.

This is a great discussion though as both are sixth-crop sires and it makes for a really good comparison.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Where are we getting this 571 foal number? According to the Stallion Register, Northern Afleet has sired 348 horses of racing age, 244 runners, 70 percent winners, and 14 stakes winners. Skip Away's numbers are pretty similar. Considering - again - the mares one probably got versus the other, I'd suggest Northern Afleet has done pretty darn well for himself.

This is a great discussion though as both are sixth-crop sires and it makes for a really good comparison.

as of 5/12/08 from equineline

Statistical summary for the registered progeny of Northern Afleet:

8 crops
571 foals
7 crops of racing age
493 foals of racing age
131 current 2 year old foals
78 yearlings
0 weanlings

In North America / USA, Australia, Canada, England, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy,
Japan, UAE, and all other available foreign data:

1 champions
3 graded stakes winners
16 stakes winners
13 stakes placers



I suppose that you could say from 493 potential starters

[slotdirt]

Fair enough.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

as of 5/12/08 from equineline

Statistical summary for the registered progeny of Northern Afleet:

8 crops
571 foals
7 crops of racing age
493 foals of racing age
131 current 2 year old foals
78 yearlings
0 weanlings

In North America / USA, Australia, Canada, England, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy,
Japan, UAE, and all other available foreign data:

1 champions
3 graded stakes winners
16 stakes winners
13 stakes placers



I suppose that you could say from 493 potential starters

He's only had 3 graded stakes winners?!?

[parsixfarms]

Skip Away has one more graded stakes winner (4), and only three more stakes winners despite getting better mares at the start of his career.

Based on the attention brought from Afleet Alex (and a few others such as G P Fleet, Saint Afleet, and all those Wynn horses), Northern Afleet has received the chance (getting $10,000 to $20,000 mares in KY) over the past few years that Skip Away got immediately when he retired from the track. If you're right, he'll become the new Our Emblem. Time will tell.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Skip Away has one more graded stakes winner (4), and only three more stakes winners despite getting better mares at the start of his career.

Based on the attention brought from Afleet Alex (and a few others such as G P Fleet, Saint Afleet, and all those Wynn horses), Northern Afleet has received the chance (getting $10,000 to $20,000 mares in KY) over the past few years that Skip Away got immediately when he retired from the track. If you're right, he'll become the new Our Emblem. Time will tell.

Being marginally better than Skip Away (maybe) is not exactly a ringing endorsement. How many times have you seen a cheap mare bred to bad sires who produces a couple of stakes horses suddenly gets a huge upgrade in stallions and doesnt do anything?

You got a bunch of NA's?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by philcski

He's only had 3 graded stakes winners?!?

2 from the same mare. he appears to be a good cross with hawkster mares or at least one