Top CASTRATORS

[pgiaco]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

I completely understand your argument. With Hough, though, there may not have been a reason to geld. Personally if I shelled out $950K for a colt I'd be trying to get something back - and if the horse isn't very good - you've probably got a better chance doing it in the shed than on the track. He's actually not THAT bad of a horse, though.

I understand your point also, but I would find it very hard to believe that there wasn't a reason to geld Giant Chieftain. I know if I paid that much for him there better be a damn good reason to cut him and the trainer better have a good explanation why it's going to do him any good. From a stallion marketability standpoint he'd be better off being unraced, rather than the ad that says "impressive winner of one other than...."

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

It's not like the horse is going to all of a sudden be a monster when he's gelded. Might as well save the genetics and breed him to a few mares and see what happens. Not every stud has to be marketable and worth $100K a pop.

Do you have any idea how much this costs?

[hockey2315]

Nope. . .

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

I completely understand your argument. With Hough, though, there may not have been a reason to geld. Personally if I shelled out $950K for a colt I'd be trying to get something back - and if the horse isn't very good - you've probably got a better chance doing it in the shed than on the track. He's actually not THAT bad of a horse, though.

I'm guessing that you aren't mega wealthy so you have to understand that these type of people have a completely different mindset than you and I. Horses with pedigrees and race records like this one sell as stallion prospects at the end of the book in the Keeneland January sale for like $6000 every year.

[hockey2315]

After doing a little research. . . I figured out E. Paul Robsham is dead. . . he's survived by his wife who overlooks the stable. . . Doubt she's looking for stallion prospects, but it still seems a little strange to me to geld a horse like that.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Nope. . .

A lot more than you think. If you bought 6 mares to breed to him at a cost of $10000 you would have close to $250000 in bills before the first foals even hit the track and that is not counting training and breaking of the babies. And that is being conservative. Do you think it is worth a $250000 bet to see if he is any good which he almost assuredly wont be?

[hockey2315]

They spent $950K on the horse. . . considering that $250K doesn't seem so bad. Mrs. Robsham is a rich old lady, though, so it's obvious that she's not too concerned with trying to make some of her money back. Knowing that I find it odd that she sold Discreet Cat.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

They spent $950K on the horse. . . considering that $250K doesn't seem so bad. Mrs. Robsham is a rich old lady, though, so it's obvious that she's not too concerned with trying to make some of her money back. Knowing that I find it odd that she sold Discreet Cat.

So it isn't bad enough they blew over a million on him, you want them to spend another 250 trying to justify the first million? Unusual logic. The word was that she really did not want to sell and they put an unbelievable figure on the horse but Sheikh mo said no problem. Even rich people have a price. Not to mention advisors that profit handsomely off deals like that.

[philcski]

Giant Chieftan has been a goofball from the first day. Remember his debut at Saratoga, where he was all set to blow away the field when he decided he wanted a hot dog and a beer, and nearly ended up in the stands?

He's never shown the ability that would make him a desirable sire.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by philcski

Giant Chieftan has been a goofball from the first day. Remember his debut at Saratoga, where he was all set to blow away the field when he decided he wanted a hot dog and a beer, and nearly ended up in the stands?

He's never shown the ability that would make him a desirable sire.

yeah was that him?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

yeah was that him?

Yeah, I bet him...( and I bet him again today. )

Sniper had the 50-1 shot that benefitted from his antics though.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by philcski

Yeah, I bet him...( and I bet him again today. )

Sniper had the 50-1 shot that benefitted from his antics though.

wasnt that J. Sanders horse?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

wasnt that J. Sanders horse?

Yeah, Kon Krete Kid. First crop of Jump Start. I think he has concrete shoes on now, don't think he ever won another race.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by philcski

Yeah, Kon Krete Kid. First crop of Jump Start. I think he has concrete shoes on now, don't think he ever won another race.

He just won a $25K claimer the other day at Arlington! Race 8 on Friday.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

He just won a $25K claimer the other day at Arlington! Race 8 on Friday.

Nice catch! Guess I was wrong that he hadn't won since, since it was an N3L. He's got more wins than Giant Chieftan

[Scav]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

He just won a $25K claimer the other day at Arlington! Race 8 on Friday.

Douglas jumping aboard for Robertson at 10/1. got a great trip

[Linny]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

They spent $950K on the horse. . . considering that $250K doesn't seem so bad. Mrs. Robsham is a rich old lady, though, so it's obvious that she's not too concerned with trying to make some of her money back. Knowing that I find it odd that she sold Discreet Cat.

As Cannon Shell said, it's about the value of this horse as a stud prospect is probably very low. By low I mean five figures, low five figures. Even if he were to win a stake this season by some miracle he would be next to worthless. The modest end of the market is filled with stallions who were once potental top stallions after good racing careers. The market doesn't need a flakey headed unsuccessful son of Giant's Causeway.
IF Mrs. Robsham were interested, she would have to invest a couple of hundred thousand MORE into him to buy mares and breed her own to him.

If he were to stand someplace he's suitable only for a regional market. Even if he did win a minor stake this season (and that is a stretch) he'd be worth maybe $1000 fee. At that rate in Louisiana or Maryland or NY he might get 15 mares because he's just not a hot ticket. The regional markets are flooded with slow bluebloods. If he generated $15k in income a year, against the cost of maintaining him, advertising him, feeding him it's a LOSS.

He was a big investment that didn't pan out. He's not a viable stud prospect. (CS mentioned that horses like this sell at auction all the time for under $10k.) Mrs. Robsham figures that maybe gelding him will make him at least a viable RACING prospect, one that she can enjoy watching or who at least will be salable though the claim box if he can't quite succeed in allowances.

What most pople don't realize is how much money it cost to STAND a stallion. You have to advertise and promote the heck out of him. You have to sell him. You also have to pay the standing farm or stallion manager alot of money for his upkeep. You have to pay for the breeding shed staff and the vets who attend to the breeding. You have general vet and farrier expenses. If he is valuable, insurance is important and expensive.

The horse in my avatar is a very nice gelding. He lives at a boarding and showing barn and aside from funky shoes he requires no special maintainance. Off the top, board and vet and farriery is assumed to be about $1000 a month. If he were a standing stallion, he'd certainly have to be a fancier place, prepared to handle mares, perform the mating, handle vet care related to breeding etc. Such a place would need to maintain separate paddocks for him and any other stallions. Factor in that most low priced, regional stallions rarely get books of over 10 mares, I can't see making any money at that level. Add on promoting a stallion, and I cannot imagine how a stallion can be viable for an fee less that about $5k.

[philcski]

Great post Linny.

[hockey2315]

Thanks for the insight Linny. I fully admit that I don't know much about this part of the game. . .

[pgiaco]

Well said Linny.