Zito: Commentator passing BC; Targets '09 season - Page 3

King Glorious · #41 10-09-2008, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smuthg

I'd go with St. Liam also, but, and I honestly don't know the answer, but has anyone other than Ghostzapper run a faster Beyer figure than Commentator since 2000?

I think Candy Ride was a 123. Midway Road had a 124 I think. There might be a couple more.

CSC · #42 10-09-2008, 11:40 AM

I guess the obvious question is why does Commentator need so much time between his races?

Linny · #43 10-09-2008, 11:45 AM

Commentator is a very good horse that has been very well managed. Obviously he has "issues" or he'd have run more. That said, Nick has not a fine job of spotting him. Though he only has 3 graded wins, he's rarely run in graded company that was not G1. He was 3rd in the Met Mile etc.

I do agreethat at 9f+ Commentator would be little match for MDO, who has a very high crusing speed and could then put away horses late. In some ways Commenator has been lucky but honestly, it's been luck and hard work that have kept him around this long.

hockey2315 · #44 10-09-2008, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

I guess the obvious question is why does Commentator need so much time between his races?

I think a MORE obvious question is "why is this so surprising?"

King Glorious · #45 10-09-2008, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

I guess the obvious question is why does Commentator need so much time between his races?

Another question that was asked but dismissed is if you know he needs seven weeks minimum to recover, why target him for a race that won't give him enough time to recover for the BC if the BC is really your goal? Also, and I won't pretend to know more than Zito here, but it didn't appear to me that the race took as much out of him as some of his others have to where he would need the same amount of recovery time. Will he need seven weeks to recover from this workout the other day? That's all Suffolk was. A workout.

King Glorious · #46 10-09-2008, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linny

Commentator is a very good horse that has been very well managed. Obviously he has "issues" or he'd have run more. That said, Nick has not a fine job of spotting him. Though he only has 3 graded wins, he's rarely run in graded company that was not G1. He was 3rd in the Met Mile etc.

I do agreethat at 9f+ Commentator would be little match for MDO, who has a very high crusing speed and could then put away horses late. In some ways Commenator has been lucky but honestly, it's been luck and hard work that have kept him around this long.

As much respect as I have for Zito, I don't agree with this. I think that Nick has wasted more than a few efforts with Commentator. He showed early that he's a horse that likes to control things up front and that his natural speed is more dangerous in longer races. He showed that when he beat Saint Liam in the Whitney. But instead of keeping the focus on two-turn races at distances over a mile, he was continously forced into top level sprints where he proved over and over again that he wasn't up to winning. When put back into the Whitney, he dominated. After that race, Zito said he'd look for a two-turn race at 9f and thus came the Mass Cap. It's better that the light came on late instead of never but I wish it had come on earlier.

CSC · #47 10-09-2008, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Another question that was asked but dismissed is if you know he needs seven weeks minimum to recover, why target him for a race that won't give him enough time to recover for the BC if the BC is really your goal? Also, and I won't pretend to know more than Zito here, but it didn't appear to me that the race took as much out of him as some of his others have to where he would need the same amount of recovery time. Will he need seven weeks to recover from this workout the other day? That's all Suffolk was. A workout.

That's a good question, I don't know.

cakes44 · #48 10-09-2008, 11:58 AM

The obvious answer to the "Why Mass Cap?" question is that Zito was never going to send Commentator to Santa Anita under any circumstances. Commentator is a gelding, so who cares about another grade 1, so he ran in the Mass Cap instead of the JCC or something else. He got another easy check.

I do wonder why there hasn't been any talk about running him in the Clark though? He must have some real issues right now.

Linny · #49 10-09-2008, 12:03 PM

Cakes has it rightIMO. I don't think that Nick was every really considering the BCC with this horse. IF (and that's a big if)he had gone, the "Dirt Mile that's not on Dirt and last year wasn't a Mile" would have been a better option.
I spoke to Nick a few times about this horse this year and though I never asked him specifically, he never once said or even implied that the Cup was part of the plan.
If he can, maybe the Cigar Mile is an option. If not, Mr Farmer is happy to let Nick plan a no-doubt short but solid 8yo campaign.

CSC · #50 10-09-2008, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakes44

The obvious answer to the "Why Mass Cap?" question is that Zito was never going to send Commentator to Santa Anita under any circumstances. Commentator is a gelding, so who cares about another grade 1, so he ran in the Mass Cap instead of the JCC or something else. He got another easy check.

I do wonder why there hasn't been any talk about running him in the Clark though? He must have some real issues right now.

I don't know Nick Zito, but I would have a very hard time believing he would run a unsound horse. That is why I asked earlier why Commentator needs so much time between his races. It's certainly a mystery to me.

cakes44 · #51 10-09-2008, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

I don't know Nick Zito, but I would have a hard time believing he would run a unsound horse.

Bellamy Road in the Travers?

Linny · #52 10-09-2008, 12:12 PM

It's not that Commentator is unsound in the sense of being lame. What he is, is brittle. He's prone to injury and muscle soreness. Though he hasn't raced alot, he's been in training and "done alot" for a long time. That takes a toll n joints etc.

King Glorious · #53 10-09-2008, 12:13 PM

I also don't believe there was ever any real intention of running in the BC this year.

He did say that if he's to run again this year, he'd consider the Clark or the Cigar.

CSC · #54 10-09-2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakes44

Bellamy Road in the Travers?

Again I don't know Mr. Zito and I am neither a Zito defender or a Zito critic, what I do know of him is what I have read and followed throughout his career, and I don't believe he would race an unsound horse to the point of injurying them. He cares about his horses. Bellamy Road was a horse that had problems and they stopped on him before he could do permanent damage to himself on the racetrack. But in the case of Commentator, the horse is still running well at a highly advanced age for a throughbred, which begs the question I have asked why he hasn't raced more often. Maybe I am wrong but I wonder what explanation it could be. 7 weeks between races still would give a horse a good 6 race year theoretically, these days that would be considered a career for some.

dalakhani · #55 10-09-2008, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrfan

He has also beat Student Council, Grasshopper and First Defense.... One could argue that the top 4-5 horses Commentator has ever beat are clearly better then anything Big Brown has ever defeated.

Ya think?

Big Brown has raced in unrestricted company all of once and that was on the grass. His crop has so far shown to be one of the weaker ones in many years.

I can think of horses with a tenth of the prestige of Commentator that can make the same claim.

10 pnt move up · #56 10-09-2008, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I also don't believe there was ever any real intention of running in the BC this year.

He did say that if he's to run again this year, he'd consider the Clark or the Cigar.

Zito has NEVER started a horse in the BC in California......to my knowledge he has never shipped a horse to California?

freddymo · #57 10-10-2008, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm confused Freddy....he ran Commentator in the Mass Cap because it was exactly seven weeks after the Whitney. That was how long he felt the horse needed......he would not have been ready for a race at an earlier date. He's a gelding, so winning a Graded race isn't of real importance, and the Mass Cap was a perfect spot ( hard to argue with that in result ). Now the BC is six weeks from that race and he feels the horse needs more time.

What am I missing?

He could have pointed him for the BCC and raced him a week earlier somewhere. He didn't because the race is in Ca. and on pro ride. And this the horse needs 49 days to recover not 42 is bordering on insanity. I suggest if the race was at Belmont 42 days recover would be just fine for 5 mil.