Top 5 BC performances ever

[Thunder Gulch]

Originally Posted by Danzig

personal ensign, arazi and tiznows second win would be hard to top.

These are the first three, in order, that I thought of. Kona Gold's track record at Churchill was the best I saw in person.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

These are the first three, in order, that I thought of. Kona Gold's track record at Churchill was the best I saw in person.

I still think if Honest Lady gets a better trip she wins that race.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

the 20.80 opening quarter wasn't quite fast enough to setup her close.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

You do realize that those desperate 3-way photos involved, in the case of Personal Ensign--Winning Colors (Kentucky Derby, SA Derby, SA Oaks, etc) and Goodbye Halo (Kentucky Oaks, Mother Goose, etc)...and in the case of Wild Again---Slew O Gold (Marlboro Cup, Woodward, JCGC, etc) and Gate Dancer (Preakness, Super Derby both in track record fashion)?

I guess you like those blow out wins over Whiskey Whisdom, Dowty, and washed up horses like Lakeway and Heavenly Prize.

you can add Serena's Song and Mariah's Storm.

Wild Again ran 6 lengths slower than Princess Rooney - and I guess if Personal Ensign's Distaff win is the best distaff performance ever - that means a washed up Winning Colors and a washed up Goodbye Halo ran better races than Inside Information, Princess Rooney, or Lady's Secret.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

the 20.80 opening quarter wasn't quite fast enough to setup her close.

I would have thought a professional such as yourself would know to take the 1st quarter time in 6 furlong races at CD with a grain of salt...and that same pace set up favored a stalker such as KG much more than Honest Lady who was fanned to the outside fence. You know that 10 wide move works all the time at CD in sprints, she certainly didnt have more than few lengths of trouble and lost by...

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Even though CD opening quarters come back much faster at 6fs because of the run-up - that pace set by Caller One was still wicked - and I refuse to believe that you believe KG did not run a better race than Honest Lady.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

you can add Serena's Song and Mariah's Storm.

Wild Again ran 6 lengths slower than Princess Rooney - and I guess if Personal Ensign's Distaff win is the best distaff performance ever - that means a washed up Winning Colors and a washed up Goodbye Halo ran better races than Inside Information, Princess Rooney, or Lady's Secret.

Mariah's Storm? Wasn't she a multiple Grade 3 winner?

Or are we suddenly including beaten uteruses as part of the selection criteria?

I guess we have to look at Tasso's Juvenile in a whole new light when you considered he edged out Storm Cat's testicles at the wire...

And Goodbye Halo was washed up? Maybe by the end of '89, but not '88. If it weren't for Bayakoa in her prime, she arguably would have racked up 3 or 4 more Grade 1 wins in '89 aside from the two she won outright.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I would have thought a professional such as yourself would know to take the 1st quarter time in 6 furlong races at CD with a grain of salt...and that same pace set up favored a stalker such as KG much more than Honest Lady who was fanned to the outside fence. You know that 10 wide move works all the time at CD in sprints, she certainly didnt have more than few lengths of trouble and lost by...

By the way - this post here is nothing more than a product of NBC's horrible coverage of the 2000 Breeders Cup - which featured some insane camera angles.

I have the actual simulcast feed video of all the 2000 BC races - a teller/better friend who worked at a local OTB would tape them for me.

I remembered Kona Gold being wider than Honest Lady - and in fact she clearly was.

Thoro-Graph only had Kona Gold 1 path wider than HL in the '00 Sprint - but it was closer to two paths than even.

The NBC feed of the race is bonkers - and you don't even see HL until inside the 1/8th pole when she was wide and flying.

Kona Gold was under a drive throughout that race and had to work very hard to hold position - he was also up much closer to the pace than Honest Lady was. Maybe Honest Lady had a bit of a tougher trip than 3rd place finisher Bet On Sunshine ... but those two were the two who got the best pace setup and had the nicest trips.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Mariah's Storm? Wasn't she a multiple Grade 3 winner?

Or are we suddenly including beaten uteruses as part of the selection criteria?

Mariah's Storm ran a 120 Beyer figure and destroyed Serena's Song about six weeks prior. She repeatedly ran triple digit figures over and over that year.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

By the way - this post here is nothing more than a product of NBC's horrible coverage of the 2000 Breeders Cup - which featured some insane camera angles.

I have the actual simulcast feed video of all the 2000 BC races - a teller/better friend who worked at a local OTB would tape them for me.

I remembered Kona Gold being wider than Honest Lady - and in fact she clearly was.

Thoro-Graph only had Kona Gold 1 path wider than HL in the '00 Sprint - but it was closer to two paths than even.

The NBC feed of the race is bonkers - and you don't even see HL until inside the 1/8th pole when she was wide and flying.

Kona Gold was under a drive throughout that race and had to work very hard to hold position - he was also up much closer to the pace than Honest Lady was. Maybe Honest Lady had a bit of a tougher trip than 3rd place finisher Bet On Sunshine ... but those two were the two who got the best pace setup and had the nicest trips.

I watched the race in person, not on tv. Honest lady was not only wide she was behind horses going nowhere which is why she was fanned so wide coming into the stretch. The pace setter caller One was not beaten very far.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Mariah's Storm ran a 120 Beyer figure and destroyed Serena's Song about six weeks prior. She repeatedly ran triple digit figures over and over that year.

The Turfway Budweiser BC? Where Lukas just couldn't stand to see Serena's Song in stay in the stall for 14 days straight and had to run her there in between wins in the Gazelle and Beldame.

Now that we've established that only speed figures matter, what about the undercard races?

What Beyer did Light Of Morn get when he won the Dancing Spree on the '92 Gulfstream undercard? Or Memo in the Smile on the '93 undercard?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Caller One was an AWESOME sprinter - and was almost joint favorite with Kona Gold.

If you want to argue that Honest Lady had a slightly worse trip than fellow deep closing longshot 3rd place finisher Bet On Sunshine ... ok.

However, that was some performance by Kona Gold and he was clearly much the best.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Now that we've established that only speed figures matter, what about the undercard races?

You are doing your best to try to prove that they don't matter.

And that is a pretty foolish position to take - even for an all-world ankle biter such as yourself.

Mariah's Storm was an outstanding horse that year.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Caller One was an AWESOME sprinter - and was almost joint favorite with Kona Gold.

If you want to argue that Honest Lady had a slightly worse trip than fellow deep closing longshot 3rd place finisher Bet On Sunshine ... ok.

However, that was some performance by Kona Gold and he was clearly much the best.

Clearly much the best? On what basis? if the race was 6 furlongs and 15 feet he was beat. There was no bigger Caller One fan than me but you stated how the pace meltdown helped the deep closers yet the pace didnt really meltdown. Kona Gold tripped out in that race and you want to say he had a tougher trip than a horse who broke from post 13, was caught behind dead horses for a quarter mile, was fanned 10 wide coming into the stretch, losing all momentum and held her off by half a length.

[Cannon Shell]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5UUpFHDP4I

Where exactly does Kona Golds trip be considered tough?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

He was under a ride the whole way up on a hot pace and had to work to not get shuffled.

You are getting real silly with this HL was 10 wide stuff - you are reminding me of the old CD chart caller. Try 2 wide on the turn - and than she fanned out around horses tiring because of the pace.

But the comment that the hot pace favored KG more so than HL and Bet On Sunshine is just bananas.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

He was under a ride the whole way up on a hot pace and had to work to not get shuffled.

You are getting real silly with this HL was 10 wide stuff - you are reminding me of the old CD chart caller. Try 2 wide on the turn - and than she fanned out around horses tiring because of the pace.

But the comment that the hot pace favored KG more so than HL and Bet On Sunshine is just bananas.

He had a clear trip behind a fast pace. "he was under a ride not to get shuffled" in now considered a trouble line? The fact that every race in Southern Califoria pre poly was ridden like this and the fact that the vast majority of his races were run under these conditions dont matter? He had clear aim at the quarter pole on a horse setting fast fractions. All the other stuff you are contending is tough is the silly part.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

You are putting on a dazzling exhibition of sucker horse race watching 101.

Caller One had run 3 straight 117 Beyers going into the race - got a 106 that day. As a 4yo, he returned to win the Dubai Sprint by 4.5 and than post 3 straight 117's again.

Kona Gold also went backwards on figures in that race despite setting a track record.

But you loved the suck up efforts of the 8 year old Bet on Sunshine and the likewise dream setup Honest Lady.

Shrewd.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

You are putting on a dazzling exhibition of sucker horse race watching 101.

Caller One had run 3 straight 117 Beyers going into the race - got a 106 that day. As a 4yo, he returned to win the Dubai Sprint by 4.5 and than post 3 straight 117's again.

Kona Gold also went backwards on figures in that race despite setting a track record.

But you loved the suck up efforts of the 8 year old Bet on Sunshine and the likewise dream setup Honest Lady.

Shrewd.

I said nothing of Bet on Sunshine but it takes some stretch of the imagination to draw Caller Ones 4 year old speed figures into a discussion of Honest Ladys trip. Especially considering Kona Golds relatively easy one in comparison. Your interpretation of race includes Beyer numbers in races after the fact which have really nothing to do with this trips in this race. I have watched thousands of races at CD going 6 furlongs and by far the most frequent type of winner is the horse who got Kona Golds trip in that race. The type of trip that Honest Lady got virtually never wins or even gets close except in occasions where the race totally falls apart which most certainly wasnt the case here.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

At least you've moved away from the "honest lady was 10 wide and had horses stopping in front of her" insanity.

She was 2 wide on the turn - and came out and around horses in the straight without losing momentum.

Yeah - that's such a tough trip at CD - especially when getting a big pace setup to boot.