Vineyard Haven Sold...

[Linny]

SC was pretty good. He and Ruler's Court were probably the best Derby prospects they ever bought. I think Ruler's Court was still racing at age 6, a clear admission of failure by Godolphin. He'd race about once a year, maybe in Dubai or at Belmont, but as Andy said, maybe I should watch for him this month at AQU.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Apparently you were sleeping when he beat Lido Palace in the UAE Derby ( and then missed Lido Palace's subsequent US campaign ) and when he absolutely drowned Congaree in the Stephen Foster ( one of the more impressive performances of this decade ).

He missed Lido's US campaign, but wouldn't have faced him til later anyhow as Lido was a US 4yo and SC would have run with 3yo's.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Actually, that Calder horse, Express Tour, nostrilized him in the UAE Derby.

But I guess that still doesn't make your first sentence technically incorrect.

I was aware of that....and also aware that he still beat Lido Palace.

Express Tour also won the Jerome......the same race KG keeps reminding us Discreet Cat won. And, he beat a much better field than Discreet Cat did.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Linny

SC was pretty good. He and Ruler's Court were probably the best Derby prospects they ever bought. I think Ruler's Court was still racing at age 6, a clear admission of failure by Godolphin. He'd race about once a year, maybe in Dubai or at Belmont, but as Andy said, maybe I should watch for him this month at AQU.

Didn't they own both horses outright at the onset of their careers?

Might have even bred Street Cry.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Linny

He missed Lido's US campaign, but wouldn't have faced him til later anyhow as Lido was a US 4yo and SC would have run with 3yo's.

I meant KG missed Lido Palace's campaign.

Street Cry finished ahead of Lido the next year in the Whitney.

[Linny]

I think they bough RC after he won the...Del Mar Futurity maybe or the Norfolk. Ruler's Court is at stud in Louisiana, so much for AQU.
They bred SC.

KG seems to have mised alot.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Didn't they own both horses outright at the onset of their careers?

Might have even bred Street Cry.

Skipping the BC Juvenile with Ruler's Court, a race won by that exceptional talent Action This Day, was one of the biggest blunders I have seen in my lifetime of following horse racing.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Linny

I think they bough RC after he won the...Del Mar Futurity maybe or the Norfolk. Ruler's Court is at stud in Louisiana, so much for AQU.
They bred SC.

KG seems to have mised alot.

They owned Ruler's Court at the start of his career (though he may have been bought as a yearling or 2yo in training).

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Apparently you were sleeping when he beat Lido Palace in the UAE Derby ( and then missed Lido Palace's subsequent US campaign ) and when he absolutely drowned Congaree in the Stephen Foster ( one of the more impressive performances of this decade ).

Are you refering to his last race in the Clark at CD? He never raced in the Foster.

[The Bid]

Why dont you peel off a couple thousand of that 3 million your propped up on for Wednesday and Thursday.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

Are you refering to his last race in the Clark at CD? He never raced in the Foster.

Street Cry's last race was the Whitney. He demolished Congaree in the Foster in his prior start.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Why dont you peel off a couple thousand of that 3 million your propped up on for Wednesday and Thursday.

If I had 3 million I would have already bought out Fulmer's contract.

[The Bid]

No telling what you are sitting on

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Street Cry's last race was the Whitney. He demolished Congaree in the Foster in his prior start.

I follow along poorly, I thought you were refering to Lido Palace.

[King Glorious]

As I said, I don't deny at all that it hasn't worked. I only say that it hasn't worked YET. I don't deny that they have spent a lot of money foolishly. I don't deny that there have been a lot of horses that never came back to run anywhere near the level that their purchase prices would suggest they run at. I just think that sometimes the expectations that we put on them are based on how much they cost and I don't know if that's an accurate way of judging them when we are talking about people with this much money. I also wonder what people will say if they win it this year with Vineyard Haven or Midshipman. All it takes is one. Will people still say it can't be done after it's been done? That's my question. Nobody is denying the failures of the past but rather we are debating whether or not it can be successful in the future. I think that when they get the right horse, it can.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

As I said, I don't deny at all that it hasn't worked. I only say that it hasn't worked YET. I don't deny that they have spent a lot of money foolishly. I don't deny that there have been a lot of horses that never came back to run anywhere near the level that their purchase prices would suggest they run at. I just think that sometimes the expectations that we put on them are based on how much they cost and I don't know if that's an accurate way of judging them when we are talking about people with this much money. I also wonder what people will say if they win it this year with Vineyard Haven or Midshipman. All it takes is one. Will people still say it can't be done after it's been done? That's my question. Nobody is denying the failures of the past but rather we are debating whether or not it can be successful in the future. I think that when they get the right horse, it can.

I dont think anyone said that it can "never" be done. Even if it gets done by some supremely talented horse, does that suddenly their plan "good"?

They have bought some very talented horses. I also think one will eventually "hit". I think the results thus far will tell us that when/if one does "hit" it will be in spite of the way they are handled by the sheikhs.

Street Cry was an extremely talented horse with a lightning turn of foot.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

As I said, I don't deny at all that it hasn't worked. I only say that it hasn't worked YET. I don't deny that they have spent a lot of money foolishly. I don't deny that there have been a lot of horses that never came back to run anywhere near the level that their purchase prices would suggest they run at. I just think that sometimes the expectations that we put on them are based on how much they cost and I don't know if that's an accurate way of judging them when we are talking about people with this much money. I also wonder what people will say if they win it this year with Vineyard Haven or Midshipman. All it takes is one. Will people still say it can't be done after it's been done? That's my question. Nobody is denying the failures of the past but rather we are debating whether or not it can be successful in the future. I think that when they get the right horse, it can.

Sending horses to Dubai for the winter has already proven to be a failed experiment. If they happen to win one KY Derby it will not erase all the mistakes they have made in the past. Their blunders are what is impressive about their organization ( as it relates to American racing ). Not running Ruler's Court in the BC Juvenile ( when did he next race? ) should go in the HOF. Who knows what Street Cry might have done had he remained in training in the US. Worldly Manner may well have only been a miler, but he hardly disgraced himself in the Derby, and who knows what he might have done had he been handled differently. And this is with no research, and off the top of my head, thus I am sure there are others.

Yes, much of it has to do with poor purchases ( Linny's reminder of Comeonmom was the coup de gras ), but their tactics certainly haven't helped. Remember something else, they haven't even come close to succeeding in our TC contests with their plan.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I do not deny at all that they have failed with their current plan. I don't deny that they have shown poor judgement with their purchases. I think this purchase of Vineyard Haven is one of them. It's just my belief that the main reason for failure is not the plan itself but the horses that they chose to use to implement the plan.

What, you mean horses like Secretariat and Slew?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

What, you mean horses like Secretariat and Slew?

Huh?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Huh?

Sorry, I'm on a laptop and I get lazy typing on these things.

What I meant was in response to you saying they had used the wrong types of horses for their great plans to conquer the derby.

When I said Secretariat and Slew, that was meant to ask if those were the right kinds of horses they need for their plan. You know, the immortal great kinds.