Islam and the weapon of deception

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Honu

The diffirence being that Muslim people (not all of them but a large part of their sect) believe that you and I no matter what we believe are wrong unless we believe in Islam and they will kill you because of it , in a heartbeat.
They are doing it all over the world ,they are killing their own Muslim brothers and sisters and throwing acid on little girls faces on their way to school.
To me , from an observers point of view, Islam is a violent faith that promotes its self as peacefull God loving people , if they want the world to see that they are peacefull then its time they stand up to the radicals and tell them no more. But they wont because that would get them killed and so for the Muslims that wish no harm on anyone well they will just have to get used to being clumped in with the bad guys.
Do I see their faith as something I should fear? no , but the people practicing the faith , maybe so.

apparently you only read the news when no one stands up, and have missed all the calls from muslims asking for peace. it happens, but much like other good news, doesn't get front page above the fold headlines.
blanket statements have no place in dialogue. the squeaky wheel as they say gets the grease, so the violent muslim gets the story, while those who wish to live and let live get ignored, or painted as being part of the problem, not part of the solution.
i assure you, fostering hate does nothing to solve the problem-and imo the seed of this thread is planted in hate and fear, and ignorance.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

thanks, altho i doubt i get anywhere, except reminded i'm no longer decent...

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Danzig

thanks, altho i doubt i get anywhere, except reminded i'm no longer decent...

it's not that you're not decent, you've just become a deep thinker

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Danzig

apparently you only read the news when no one stands up, and have missed all the calls from muslims asking for peace. it happens, but much like other good news, doesn't get front page above the fold headlines.
blanket statements have no place in dialogue. the squeaky wheel as they say gets the grease, so the violent muslim gets the story, while those who wish to live and let live get ignored, or painted as being part of the problem, not part of the solution.
i assure you, fostering hate does nothing to solve the problem-and imo the seed of this thread is planted in hate and fear, and ignorance.

I dont hate Muslims , I hate what the radicals do to people their own and others . They control the situation , if the peace loving one's had enough gumption or nerve they would stand up , write letters to the world , make a statement on tv to everyone that would listen that this is not what their faith is about . Yet they stand by and let their brothers and sisters with hate in their heart do the talking , why dont the leaders of these countries who are Muslim , if they dont condone the violence the followers of their faith stand up and say something , make it stop , stop supporting them with money and arms. I am not ignorant , I went to school with a Muslim girl , I have neighbors that are Ethiopian and Muslim all very nice people who dont seem to care that Im not Muslim . I dont hate anyone , but Im not so blind that to see a pattern of hate that is fostered from the time some of these people are born , Dateline did a great piece on children in Palistine that are tought in school to hate and are tought how to build bambs that they can strap to themselves so they can kill people and this is something that thru the Muslim faith is considered honorable. So I guess when the peace loving kind hearted Muslims stand up for what they believe in then people might start to believe that Islam is not a violent faith. Until then the perception is greater to think that Muslims are violent and treat their women and daughters like trash , that they dont care about their fellow man nor themselves.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Honu

I dont hate Muslims , I hate what the radicals do to people their own and others . They control the situation , if the peace loving one's had enough gumption or nerve they would stand up , write letters to the world , make a statement on tv to everyone that would listen that this is not what their faith is about . Yet they stand by and let their brothers and sisters with hate in their heart do the talking , why dont the leaders of these countries who are Muslim , if they dont condone the violence the followers of their faith stand up and say something , make it stop , stop supporting them with money and arms. I am not ignorant , I went to school with a Muslim girl , I have neighbors that are Ethiopian and Muslim all very nice people who dont seem to care that Im not Muslim . I dont hate anyone , but Im not so blind that to see a pattern of hate that is fostered from the time some of these people are born , Dateline did a great piece on children in Palistine that are tought in school to hate and are tought how to build bambs that they can strap to themselves so they can kill people and this is something that thru the Muslim faith is considered honorable. So I guess when the peace loving kind hearted Muslims stand up for what they believe in then people might start to believe that Islam is not a violent faith. Until then the perception is greater to think that Muslims are violent and treat their women and daughters like trash , that they dont care about their fellow man nor themselves.

sadly, that happens everywhere. it's not limited to muslims, it's christians (who somehow manage to ignore the words of their leader) as well. i was just around my brother in law, who goes to church every sunday and went to help feed the homeless on christmas--sounds like a great guy, right....yet he uses the 'n' word, which i told him was disgusting. and he has three kids. no doubt he considers himself a christian, yet teaches his children hate by exhibiting racism.
we can all do better. but pointing fingers at others, while pretending we are so great (do we put others down so as to hopefully become elevated?) in my opinion is wrong. timmi is a hater. it's that simple. he seems however to feel that HIS hate is ok, as it's directed towards 'the bad guy'. but in doing so, he himself becomes that which he hates. i don't hate anyone. too often i have been dismissed (usually due to being a female) so i don't take dismissal from anyone, towards anyone, too lightly. if people want to be disgusted with those who actually commit a crime-go for it. but blanket statements about an entire group, based on the actions of some in that group, imo is wrong, it's distasteful to say the least, and should not be allowed to pass without comment. honu, surely you have dealt with things like this, perhaps not as strongly, in your line of work? i try to put myself in other peoples' shoes, and give benefit of the doubt. there is no way i can say that all muslims should be questioned due to the actions of some. that's just a stereotype-and i thought we fought those things?

[Honu]

Ok Ive been giving your post some thought , I can agree that the people of this faith are going to get lumped in , I can agree that some( most likely a majority of) so called Christains dont really follow the tenements of Christ. I will tell you the only Muslims I have met have been one's in America and I never even thought to not like them , they were just people.
Have you met alot of Muslims in the Middle East ?

[Riot]

Huston Smith wrote a good book, The Religions of Man. Covers the seven major religions. Very easy reading. Very educational. Very cheap on Amazon.

It's a world society, borders become more meaningless every day. Know thy neighbor.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Riot

Huston Smith wrote a good book, The Religions of Man. Covers the seven major religions. Very easy reading. Very educational. Very cheap on Amazon.

It's a world society, borders become more meaningless every day. Know thy neighbor.

Bravo! I think this is the book I read in my freshman year at Marlboro College. It's not that big, so should be easy enough to get through.(I think I only read parts of it, as I was in another world at college that first semester, getting constant bj's, party after party with home grown Afghanistan so abundant you didn't need any money)

I should be ashamed.

[TheSpyder]

You were getting BJ's from Afghanistan's?

Originally Posted by Mike

Bravo! I think this is the book I read in my freshman year at Marlboro College. It's not that big, so should be easy enough to get through.(I think I only read parts of it, as I was in another world at college that first semester, getting constant bj's, party after party with home grown Afghanistan so abundant you didn't need any money)

I should be ashamed.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Interesting point you bring up, but I daresay the US need not fear a violent attack from Christians.

btw, before 9-11, the deadliest terrorist attack ever on u.s. soil was the bombing in oklahoma city. by a christian. tim mcveigh was raised a roman catholic.

[timmgirvan]

Yeah...I'm sure McVeigh had Communion just before he drove the truck to the building......weak

[Danzig]

and like i said above...people will pounce on any and every 'fact' that backs up their beliefs, while completely dismssing anything that doesn't-and you just completely dismissed the fact, that until 9-11, the single deadliest terror attack on american soil was by an american and a christian-not a muslim. and that, dear sir, is what's really weak.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Danzig

and like i said above...people will pounce on any and every 'fact' that backs up their beliefs, while completely dismssing anything that doesn't-and you just completely dismissed the fact, that until 9-11, the single deadliest terror attack on american soil was by an american and a christian-not a muslim. and that, dear sir, is what's really weak.

McVeigh wasn't a practicing Catholic,imo.....so he was essentially faithless.
But he was an American..so that means you're right.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Not the point when he was practicing or even what religion he was. As I'm sure you know, he was also a veteran. He and his father were devout Catholics, attending mass everyday. He "lost touch with God" and reconciled with the Church before he was executed. The point Danzig made, which you of course ignored was that crazy people do crazy things, regardless of their religion.

I didn't ignore it, I just don't think that it's the answer to the question.
But thanks for dropping by.....

[Honu]

The attack in Okalahoma might have been the most deadly , but its not like the crazy Muslims hadnt tried to blow up the Trade Center before , I think it was targeted twice that I recall and they attacked the USS Cole and our Embassy , which was all a pre-cursur to the big one when they finally got the job done in 2001. Im not saying that other people of other faiths dont blow stuff up but right now in the world most of the violence that is being commited , is being commited by radical Muslims. Ill re-state that not all Muslims are doing it but all Muslims are culpable for what they let go on from the government right down to the farmers , the radicals have installed so much fear that even their own people wont make a stand and that is sad.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Not the point when he was practicing or even what religion he was. As I'm sure you know, he was also a veteran. He and his father were devout Catholics, attending mass everyday. He "lost touch with God" and reconciled with the Church before he was executed. The point Danzig made, which you of course ignored was that crazy people do crazy things, regardless of their religion.

i had a couple of points really...one is that a person will do what they will regardless of religion.
another point is that perception is reality to most. there are all sorts of fringe groups who 'believe' different things, but what it all boils down to is that they are criminals who seek to rationalize what they do.
terrorists don't commit crimes of terror for god, they use that to excuse it. if they didn't believe in god, they'd still blow crap up everyday.
my other point was, people didn't automatically make a correlation between mcveigh and his religion, but people automatically make that connection when it's a muslim.
i don't recall this sort of mentality when it was the ira vs the brits.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Mike

Bravo! I think this is the book I read in my freshman year at Marlboro College. It's not that big, so should be easy enough to get through.(I think I only read parts of it, as I was in another world at college that first semester, getting constant bj's, party after party with home grown Afghanistan so abundant you didn't need any money)

I should be ashamed.

I'm impressed you remember

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Honu

The attack in Okalahoma might have been the most deadly , but its not like the crazy Muslims hadnt tried to blow up the Trade Center before .

"Muslims" did not try to blow up the Trade Center before.

"Terrorists" tried to blow up the Trade Center before.

Sorry, those words simply are not equivalent.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

"Muslims" did not try to blow up the Trade Center before.

"Terrorists" tried to blow up the Trade Center before.

Sorry, those words simply are not equivalent.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

It's your world, boys! I personally expected as much from you two deep thinkers, but i disagree with you that you speak for anyone but yourselves.

I just wanted to take this opportunity to point out one more thing that you are wrong about in this thread.
The entire premise for this thread is obvioulsy completely nonsensical, but given that Hossy, Spencer, and now Danzig, have done a fine job of taking up the banner of rational thought against you, we don't ALL really need to pile on you.
So, you can rest assured that you are completely wrong in your statement here. They are speaking for more than just themselves.