The sad cost of war

[Riot]

For a supposedly business friendly Republican you take an awful lot of anti-business stances. For a program that is only "intended to cover a small amount of Americans", a few trillion is pretty hefty price no?

What's "anti-business" about wanting people to be able to afford, and to have, health care?

That "few trillion" is one trillion over 10 years. Less than 1% of our budget.

The idea that anyone who doesnt agree with the policy coming down from the mountaintop is spreading falsehoods and lies is ironic.

?? I haven't said that. I have said that FoxNews hasn't been accurately relaying what's in the various parts of the various bills making way through Committee, and that's certainly true. You have to know what the options are, before you can debate them.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

What's "anti-business" about wanting people to be able to afford, and to have, health care?

That "few trillion" is one trillion over 10 years. Less than 1% of our budget.



?? I haven't said that. I have said that FoxNews hasn't been accurately relaying what's in the various parts of the various bills making way through Committee, and that's certainly true. You have to know what the options are, before you can debate them.

It would "right neighborly" of the Dems to be real transparent and put out the 1000 page legislation for public dissemination....

[SOREHOOF]

Don't worry, they'll tell us what they think it says.

[SOREHOOF]

Medical benefits extended to illegals? Let me get my wallet. No tax increases for people making under $250,000? I better quit smoking. How involved do you want the Govt. involved in your life? When they are providing your healthcare they will be telling you exactly how to live your life.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

Medical benefits extended to illegals? Let me get my wallet. No tax increases for people making under $250,000? I better quit smoking. How involved do you want the Govt. involved in your life? When they are providing your healthcare they will be telling you exactly how to live your life.

the more the govt gives you, the more they can take away....

you did see that the sec/treas now says a tax increase is likely, that the deficit will keep our economy down. that an increase will help get rid of our deepening hole. so much for that obama promise...

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by Danzig

the more the govt gives you, the more they can take away....

you did see that the sec/treas now says a tax increase is likely, that the deficit will keep our economy down. that an increase will help get rid of our deepening hole. so much for that obama promise...

There was never a doubt in my mind that a tax increase was coming. With less and less people working they have to raise taxes on everyone else just to break even. The unemployment rate in my house just reached 50%.

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

It would "right neighborly" of the Dems to be real transparent and put out the 1000 page legislation for public dissemination....

I think this is the one. Not easy to find bills if you don't know the #.http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...1c8iPU8:e1562:

[SOREHOOF]

Sec 104.a is interesting.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

It would "right neighborly" of the Dems to be real transparent and put out the 1000 page legislation for public dissemination....

You could just pay attention to what is being discussed quite openly and publically in the news media:

No single payer.
No euthanizing old people.
No giving up your regular insurance, doctor, hospitals.
No involvement at all unless you choose to be involved.
No "trillions of dollars"
No government official dictating your health care to you.

No change at all to the 80% of Americans that have private health insurance now. None. Zero. Zip.

For the 20% of your fellow Americans that do not now have health insurance, that are costing emergency rooms millions of dollars, who have no wellness health care at all, who are unable to afford huge private health insurance monthly premium payments or get insured again because they have had cancer, endocrine disease, etc and their private carrier refused to pay, or rescinded their policy to get out of paying for a permanent health problem on an ongoing basis - you will be able to afford health insurance. And you will not be excluded for pre-existing conditions.

Because we are a country that takes care of our own.

And for the 80% of people that are now insured - at your next big claim, when you ask your insurance company to pay but they suddenly refuse to pay and/or they rescind you - well, you can get insured again, too, if you like.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

the more the govt gives you, the more they can take away....

you did see that the sec/treas now says a tax increase is likely, that the deficit will keep our economy down. that an increase will help get rid of our deepening hole. so much for that obama promise...

And Obama came out afterwards and said no, that will not happen. We'll see.

Clinton gave Bush a low and dwindling deficit. All Bush had to do was keep going with current policy, and there would be NO budget deficit. That would have been achieved during the Bush administration.

But no, he had to go start wars ....

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

And Obama came out afterwards and said no, that will not happen. We'll see.

Clinton gave Bush a low and dwindling deficit. All Bush had to do was keep going with current policy, and there would be NO budget deficit. That would have been achieved during the Bush administration.

But no, he had to go start wars ....

but the fact is, and remains, that the deficit is the biggest issue for the economy and is what will continue to hamper any attempts at recovery. yet the current administration is spending money hand over fist, and is attempting to begin more costly programs than we have already that we can't afford. now is the time to cut back budget-wise, not take on even more debt. it seems to me at this point that obama is more interested in pushing forward his agenda, while completely ignoring reality.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

but the fact is, and remains, that the deficit is the biggest issue for the economy and is what will continue to hamper any attempts at recovery. yet the current administration is spending money hand over fist, and is attempting to begin more costly programs than we have already that we can't afford. now is the time to cut back budget-wise, not take on even more debt. it seems to me at this point that obama is more interested in pushing forward his agenda, while completely ignoring reality.

What do you think would have happened to us, to the world, if banks were allowed to simply fail, if the major financial institutions didn't receive loans, if there was no stimulus package, etc? If none of the other industrialized countries in the world did the same as we did?

As distastful as it is to increase the deficit, it's the only way out of a recession, the only way to prevent a depression. Look at history. Regarding "hampering attempts at recovery", the biggest thing that does that is no cash flow. Yes, I know we are printing it. I am old enough to remember when the gold standard was removed.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

What do you think would have happened to us, to the world, if banks were allowed to simply fail, if the major financial institutions didn't receive loans, if there was no stimulus package, etc? If none of the other industrialized countries in the world did the same as we did?

As distastful as it is to increase the deficit, it's the only way out of a recession, the only way to prevent a depression. Look at history. Regarding "hampering attempts at recovery", the biggest thing that does that is no cash flow. Yes, I know we are printing it. I am old enough to remember when the gold standard was removed.

increasing the deficit isn't the answer-why increase one of the things that is causing our problems?? adding healthcare that we can ill afford right now isn't either. proper actions by the govt would be helpful-this mess we've witnessed since january is far from that.
fdr removed the gold standard- i didn't know you were that old!!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

increasing the deficit isn't the answer-why increase one of the things that is causing our problems?? adding healthcare that we can ill afford right now isn't either. proper actions by the govt would be helpful-this mess we've witnessed since january is far from that.
fdr removed the gold standard- i didn't know you were that old!!

Spending is, unfortunately, the answer to a recession or a depression. Don't forget the last time - people were essentially being paid to dig a hole, fill it up, dig another hole. If the government hadn't done anything (and this has been coming for some time, remember the previous administration did have a "hands off" policy pretty much for the economy, thus it worsened ... ), double the jobless numbers (Detroit automaker disaster, plus all the smaller manufacturing industries associated with that, that make parts) and add many of them in as homeless or starving. Ohio would probably be under marshall law right now. It would be very, very ugly.

Adding healthcare for the uninsured (40 million people max out of 300 million) - that's not a very expensive thing. Seriously - a trillion over 10 years, less than 1% of our budget.

I am really, really old But what I was talking about was Nixon and gold. I vaguely remember the horror when Lyndon Johnson implemented Medicare. And healthcare - I wish Bush had done it. That was something he had talked about. He got distracted by wars.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Spending is, unfortunately, the answer to a recession or a depression. Don't forget the last time - people were essentially being paid to dig a hole, fill it up, dig another hole. If the government hadn't done anything (and this has been coming for some time, remember the previous administration did have a "hands off" policy pretty much for the economy, thus it worsened ... ), double the jobless numbers (Detroit automaker disaster, plus all the smaller manufacturing industries associated with that, that make parts) and add many of them in as homeless or starving. Ohio would probably be under marshall law right now. It would be very, very ugly.

Adding healthcare for the uninsured (40 million people max out of 300 million) - that's not a very expensive thing. Seriously - a trillion over 10 years, less than 1% of our budget.

I am really, really old But what I was talking about was Nixon and gold. I vaguely remember the horror when Lyndon Johnson implemented Medicare. And healthcare - I wish Bush had done it. That was something he had talked about. He got distracted by wars.

the war got us out of the depression. and two wars helped get us into this one.
i just read where we're going to spend millions to get afgani's not to plant poppy seeds. hell, we must be better off then i thought.


japan attempted the stimulus way out of their recession a few years back-it didn't work. that was one of the things mentioned when d.c. started ramping up talks about one here. wise is he who learns from others' mistakes. but i guess we're not that wise.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

You could just pay attention to what is being discussed quite openly and publically in the news media:

No single payer.
No euthanizing old people.
No giving up your regular insurance, doctor, hospitals.
No involvement at all unless you choose to be involved.
No "trillions of dollars"
No government official dictating your health care to you.

No change at all to the 80% of Americans that have private health insurance now. None. Zero. Zip.

For the 20% of your fellow Americans that do not now have health insurance, that are costing emergency rooms millions of dollars, who have no wellness health care at all, who are unable to afford huge private health insurance monthly premium payments or get insured again because they have had cancer, endocrine disease, etc and their private carrier refused to pay, or rescinded their policy to get out of paying for a permanent health problem on an ongoing basis - you will be able to afford health insurance. And you will not be excluded for pre-existing conditions.

Because we are a country that takes care of our own.

And for the 80% of people that are now insured - at your next big claim, when you ask your insurance company to pay but they suddenly refuse to pay and/or they rescind you - well, you can get insured again, too, if you like.

and illegals.

I love the situation OB & Co. find themselves in right now. If this mess gets passed he, Reid and Pelosi will be blamed for every health care complaint in the future whether rightfully or not. If it doesn't pass well then he failed. The hypocrisy of thinking anyone opposing this is a shill, Nazi etc. and then trying to suppress free speech and assembly by having citizens report on each other and using bullies at town meetings has been especially enjoyable.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

What's "anti-business" about wanting people to be able to afford, and to have, health care?

That "few trillion" is one trillion over 10 years. Less than 1% of our budget.



?? I haven't said that. I have said that FoxNews hasn't been accurately relaying what's in the various parts of the various bills making way through Committee, and that's certainly true. You have to know what the options are, before you can debate them.

Understand the issues and we can discuss them. If you cant understand the negative impact on small business (really small businesses, $500k/25 employees not $50 million dollar revenue small businesses) then there is no need to further discuss with you. Build a campfire and sing kumbaya.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Understand the issues and we can discuss them. If you cant understand the negative impact on small business (really small businesses, $500k/25 employees not $50 million dollar revenue small businesses) then there is no need to further discuss with you. Build a campfire and sing kumbaya.

and if that doesn't work click your heels together and say, "there's no place like home"

[Cannon Shell]

While this doesnt meet the standard set by Dala it does pose some interesting questions

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...are-estimates/

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

While this doesnt meet the standard set by Dala it does pose some interesting questions

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...are-estimates/

The National Journal reports that Mr. Obama told a Democratic congressman who suggested changes in the health care plan: "You're going to destroy my presidency." On Wednesday morning, the president tweeted: "Health Care Reform Opponents Playing Politics With Our Lives." Given this recent questionable behavior, it's hard to imagine that Mr. Obama didn't apply similar pressure on CBO. There is no plausible explanation for CBO's curious lowball estimates for the cost of government health care.


'you're going to'?! obama came up with this brilliant idea, and seemingly is just trying to shove it down our throats, regardless of the facts. he wants to be a hero, regardless of the costs. if anyone is destroying his presidency, it's him. he's just another politician-there won't be any change. just more of the same. spending, wasting, and growing the deficit...oh, but it's all for our own good, right?