HOTY: If Zenyatta wins the Classic...

[Thoroughbred Fan]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I'm sorry, but I can't see awarding a horse who ran a Kip Deville-like schedule and never once left her home state to run with Horse of the Year honors. Summer Bird is still more deserving than she, even after his performance yesterday.

This.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by kgar311

If Zenyatta wins HOY im done with horse racing forever. One state, 4 walk over races that half were not impressive and a BCC without all the best horses in the country. RA 11 wins multiple states, multiple tracks, easily handled the females, easily handled 3yr old boys and beat the older boys. Not even close

They say NASCAR is fun, I would choose Drag racing.

[dalakhani]

I dont care how many times she raced this year or how many different tracks. I care that on the biggest day in the sport in front of the whole world she showed how GREAT she is. She beat the three year old colt of the year, the derby winner, the turf male of the year, and a couple of other multiple group 1 winners in convincing fashion.

[Sightseek]

RACHEL:
Martha Washington
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBxJvzktxrw

Fair Grounds Oaks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlY6N...eature=related ("with a win of quality and class" - brilliant call!)

Fantasy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQuHFpHMyM8

Kentucky Oaks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRGvb...eature=related

Preakness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRbF1...eature=related

Mother Goose
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TJTn...eature=related

Haskell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS1EG...eature=related

Woodward
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrTMp...eature=related

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ZENYATTA:

Milady
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5ff9G2fv8c

Vanity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTeV9Wb2OWo

Clement Hirsch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTcTi...eature=related

Ladies Secret
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb68fbcFp30

Classic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHtAlmq7tK8

[CSC]

On the subject of good fillies, hindsight is a wonderful thing however I would have loved to have seen Diamondrella in the Mile, her sprint effort down the hill was an abysmal waste of time.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I dont care how many times she raced this year or how many different tracks. I care that on the biggest day in the sport in front of the whole world she showed how GREAT she is. She beat the three year old colt of the year, the derby winner, the turf male of the year, and a couple of other multiple group 1 winners in convincing fashion.

any of us who complain that the bc has taken too much emphasis off the rest of the years racing is hoping your take on this isn't a widely held opinion. one race does not a year make.

but, truth be told, it doesn't matter to me who gets hoy. it's not like you can bet on it and get a return. but it does matter to racing how a day like yesterday can impact the entire year, and the thought processes in future years by owners and trainers. if we want top notch racing throughout the year, then you can't put this much emphasis on one day, regardless of the title of the program.

[clambeau]

just curious ...has Rachel ever raced, let alone won on the synthetic? If not then Zenyatta wins 2-1 in the "Graded Stakes Wins On Different Surfaces Between the 2 Best Fillies Of The Year"...Is there an Eclipse for that?.....Let's shorten it to the "GSWDFB2BFOY" Award.

Scary thought...someone is drawing up the plans for one right now. I hate awards and All Star games.

HALL OF FAMES - Love 'em - GOOD !

AWARDS ....Don't really care either way - N N N Not SO GOOD. (unless you win one yourself...then it's the best, man...really cool)

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by clambeau

just curious ...has Rachel ever raced, let alone won on the synthetic? If not then Zenyatta wins 2-1 in the "Graded Stakes Wins On Different Surfaces Between the 2 Best Fillies Of The Year"...Is there an Eclipse for that?.....Let's shorten it to the "GSWDFB2BFOY" Award.

Scary thought...someone is drawing up the plans for one right now. I hate awards and All Star games.

HALL OF FAMES - Love 'em - GOOD !

AWARDS ....Don't really care either way - N N N Not SO GOOD. (unless you win one yourself...then it's the best, man...really cool)

yes, at two when she ran at keeneland.

[dagolfer33]

I was on the Rachel side of the Rachel vs. Zenyatta (who is the better horse) issue. However, after what I saw yesterday, I can honestly say there is no way to decipher which horse would win matched up. But horse of the year, which is an award based on what a horse did this year, should go to Rachel. I honestly believe that if it were a forethought and ambition from the beginning, Rachel could have won the triple crown. And I also believe Zenyatta can beat Rachel in the context of a normal race at classic distance with the main discrepancy obviously being the surface. But when you cancel the woulda/coulda/shouldas, Rachel wins HOY>

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I dont care how many times she raced this year or how many different tracks. I care that on the biggest day in the sport in front of the whole world she showed how GREAT she is. She beat the three year old colt of the year, the derby winner, the turf male of the year, and a couple of other multiple group 1 winners in convincing fashion.

How many were running on their best surface?

[slotdirt]

The fact that the turf male of the year finished second ahead of the good natural dirt horses is pretty telling, IMO, particularly considering Gio Ponti's one other synthetic try was pretty mediocre.

I thought sending Summer Bird to the Classic and not to a race like the Clark was a huge mistake before yesterday.

[copying]

UNDEFEATED CHAMP. Won championship race going away. Didn't say "I can't beat those horses at that distance on that surface - so I'm staying home."
HOY - no brainer!

[CSC]

The surface debate is immaterial to me, you play the cards dealt to you, next year they are holding the BC at Chuchill Downs and the synth horses will supposedly be at a disadvantage. Supposing there is a Poly horse that builds a RA type resume and coasts to perhaps a HOY, will there be any dissentions also? There just seems to be so much of an anti-bias here that synth horses are inferior to dirt horses, I must be missing something because I don't get it?

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by CSC

The surface debate is immaterial to me, you play the cards dealt to you, next year they are holding the BC at Chuchill Downs and the synth horses will supposedly be at a disadvantage. Supposing there is a Poly horse that builds a RA type resume and coasts to perhaps a HOY, will there be any dissentions also? There just seems to be so much of an anti-bias here that synth horses are inferior to dirt horses, I must be missing something because I don't get it?

Maybe because dirt is a natural surface that has been used to measure which horse was the best for thousands of years?

You don't have dirt specialists like you do synth specialists.

I think synth racing is more interesting from a betting perspective (because, for instance, people made Pyro 5-1 yesterday), but it allows horses who are nothing special on dirt to pass their more talented rivals when those rivals can't handle the fake stuff.

I don't think Zenyatta falls into the category of synth specialist, though.

(I realize how played out this whole argument is. . . )

[CSC]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Maybe because dirt is a natural surface that has been used to measure which horse was the best for thousands of years?

You don't have dirt specialists like you do synth specialists.

I think synth racing is more interesting from a betting perspective (because, for instance, people made Pyro 5-1 yesterday), but it allows horses who are nothing special on dirt to pass their more talented rivals when those rivals can't handle the fake stuff.

I don't think Zenyatta falls into the category of synth specialist, though.

(I realize how played out this whole argument is. . . )

Is it time they add a 3rd catagory for eclispe awards? Best Synth horse...Given the hand all horses were dealt this yr I would be hard pressed to blame Sheriff's/Moss for the campaign they had drawn for Z with especially the way it played out yesterday, if the BC was held at CD they may have chosen a more ambitious campaign, they did go in the Classic rather than the Ladies Classic, it seems not many have given them credit for this also. They could have gone the Peppers Pride route but they put up something yesterday.

Agreed this argument has been played out and will be played out again no doubt, but regardless thank you for the thoughtful response.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by CSC

Is it time they add a 3rd catagory for eclispe awards? Best Synth horse...Given the hand all horses were dealt this yr I would be hard pressed to blame Sheriff's/Moss for the campaign they had drawn for Z, if the BC was held at CD they may have chosen a more ambitious campaign, they did go in the Classic rather than the Ladies Classic, it seems not many have given them credit for this also. They could have gone the Peppers Pride route but they put up something yesterday.

Agreed this argument has been played out and will be played out again no doubt, but regardless thank you for the thoughtful response.

There was no way they could go to the Ladies' Classic. . . wasn't a very hard decision.

Just like running RA in the Woodward instead of the Travers was a no-brainer.

[DaTruth]

How do they stack up on Thorograph numbers. As I posted earlier, RA smoked Z on the Beyers.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

There was no way they could go to the Ladies' Classic. . . wasn't a very hard decision.

Just like running RA in the Woodward instead of the Travers was a no-brainer.

Although I respect Jerry Bailey and think he does a great job on TV, I thought he was way off when he said Rachel and co. ducked the tougher spot when they chose the Woodward over the Travers shortly after the Classic.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

How do they stack up on Thorograph numbers. As I posted earlier, RA smoked Z on the Beyers.

Synthetic Beyers are normally lower than dirt #'s. Hard to do a comparison that way.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Although I respect Jerry Bailey and think he does a great job on TV, I thought he was way off when he said Rachel and co. ducked the tougher spot when they chose the Woodward over the Travers shortly after the Classic.

That was the beauty of it - it LOOKED like a harder spot, but Summer Bird and Quality Road were/are superior to anyone running in the Travers. Even if they were ducking it would be hard to "prove" - whatever that means.

Macho Again and co. are obviously better than Anabaa's Creation, etc. though.