Obama: Too much debt could fuel double-dip recession

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So you the unemployment rate really isnt that bad? Or are you trying to say that in times of 4% unemployment there are the same % of workers who dont find work after thier benefits run out as there is in times of 10% unemployment?

Geeshus, none of the freekin' above. I'm saying exactly what I said: that the employment rate has historically been calculated in a certain way, everybody knows what the number includes and what it doesn't, and to try and keep saying, "Yes, but" at this point, calculating it a different way at this point in time, simply to make it seem even larger, is silly.

It's large enough calculated the way it has always been, using it to compare historically with other periods of high unemployment, and everybody knows what it does and doesn't include in that context.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It has? You really think that that was $800 billion dollars well spent? The economy is doing so well because of it? New and existing businesses are being created and expanding, putting people back to work? Where?

Yeah, I do. I think the $800 billion dollars - most of which has NOT yet been spent, but will be over the next two years - has kept us out of a depression - that alone is pretty damn significant.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Recovery.com has totally made up information and yet the discussion turns to Fox news showing old pictures in lieu of new ones. The Govt out and out LIES about billion dollar programs and Obama says that we shouldnt focus on that. At least Fox had the courtesy to apologize.

Oh for god's sake ... if the government were deliberately lying about this web site as you contend (rather than just screwing up), why did they immediately admit they screwed up, point out which postings were screwups, and immediately correct it?

But the important point is why are we continuing to ignore the valid numbers posted?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

The company I work for has actually benefitted from stimulus money.

That's great. No one said that no business wouldnt benefit. But aas it led to greater employment or long term expansion? If so then feel fortunate, you guys hit the stimilus homerun.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GBBob

But Joey..be honest..you and most of the right wingers won't believe ANYTHING that a Dem or Liberal says. You don't believe in Global Warming, you don't believe that the Stimulus did anything good for anyone, etc. So why would you believe Bigs or anyone else who claims there was a benefit?

Bob
I dont believe the stimilus is worth the money spent because of where the money went and how it was spent not because of who proposed it. If a liberal had come up with an extention of the Bush tax cuts or broader based small-business incentives then i would wholeheartedly get behind it. What was passed had virtually nothing for the jobs creators. And then we scratch our heads when unemployment continues to rise.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

I'm talking about here, on Dee Tee.

I believe there was quite a bit of dissent. I guess i will have to slog through the search engine to bring them up.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Bob
I dont believe the stimilus is worth the money spent because of where the money went and how it was spent not because of who proposed it. If a liberal had come up with an extention of the Bush tax cuts or broader based small-business incentives then i would wholeheartedly get behind it. What was passed had virtually nothing for the jobs creators. And then we scratch our heads when unemployment continues to rise.

The only good program they came up with was the purchase of mortgage backed securities for the following reasons:
1) the government can actual recoup or make $ on this program as opposed to government spending
2) Most people that own a home could and have benefited from it.
3) I made $ on it

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yeah, I do. I think the $800 billion dollars - most of which has NOT yet been spent, but will be over the next two years - has kept us out of a depression - that alone is pretty damn significant.

Hell there was no depression coming and what has been spent hasn't fended it off. My question is that if an $800 billion dollar package was needed immediately then why is so much money spread over the next two (preelection) years? Couldnt be political could it?

There are so many lies, half and untruths about the entire Wall Street bailout that it makes you wonder if anything coming from the govt is truthful anymore. Now AIG's credit default swaps werent a huge problem????? Now we find out those nasty "unregulated" markets werent in any danger of collapse after all. Will we still need hugely expensive and unnecessary regulation for the CDS market now after the truth has been revealed?

Of course we do. More govt is in our best interests afterall. Even if they make up the story as it goes. At least Wall Street's congressional districts arent made up.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by joeydb

OK, I don't doubt you, however, let me ask -- unless you did the accounting yourself, would you have a number on how much it benefitted, both in terms of increased profits and any "jobs saved"?

In the simplest case, let's say you owned the company. You were planning to lay off people, because you had to and the balance sheet was in the red. Then you get a shot in the arm from the government and no longer need to lay people off. That's obviously a legitimate case where you could say jobs were saved. You knew you had to lay people off, you knew how many, you're obviously not deceiving yourself -- that's all real.

Now, go to the more common case where you can't be sure of the validity of any information from the bookkeeping, management or legal arms of the company. Many would argue that the potential for deception is high, saying "Oh yeah, we had jobs saved as a result of the stimulus." That's where a lot of the skepticism comes from on this issue.

I don't have numbers, but I know we are much busier in the fourth quarter of this year and steadily hiring. The only thing that has changed from the first three quarters is that we have several stimulus funded (or stimulus assisted) projects.

Increased profits have nothing to do with the package, they have to do with our performance. Also, the bidding for these projects is ravenous so you have to anticipate that the margins will be slightly lower.

*regrets entering the politics/society room*

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

I don't have numbers, but I know we are much busier in the fourth quarter of this year and steadily hiring. The only thing that has changed from the first three quarters is that we have several stimulus funded (or stimulus assisted) projects.

Increased profits have nothing to do with the package, they have to do with our performance. Also, the bidding for these projects is ravenous so you have to anticipate that the margins will be slightly lower.

*regrets entering the politics/society room*

What industry, if I may ask?

[Danzig]

my accounts related in any way to timber, forestry and construction are way down. the weather here much of the year has had a detrimental effect on timber harvests, which in turn has increased the cost of timber. in a down market, it's better for plywood and osb mills to temporarily halt production then to pay inflated prices due to the impossibility of logging. this will last months as the woods are so wet, and we don't see a change in the flooding for months.

defense on the other hand is growing, i've got several accounts that are growing rapidly--too bad tho that overall we're down. our production accts are suffering, but hospitals and schools are up. but not enough of the latter to offset the former. and then there's the fact that recent tornadoes put a huge hit on one of the universities. it's been one hell of a year down here. any potential road construction projects have been delayed due to the weather, and farmers down here are losing hundreds of millions of dollars due to record rain.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by Riot

What industry, if I may ask?

Construction, specifically bridges.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

Construction, specifically bridges.

Ah, yes, I see Scavs standing by one in your avatar ? .... (or yeah, it could be a CD barn ... )

Just wondering, as I know alot of the dollars have gone to trying to make infrastructure safer. '

Zig's take on what she's dealing with is interesting. My profession (vet med) survives on disposable income dollars, but there's quite a bit of hiring and new construction, expansion going on these past couple of months.

The infrastructure is a significant problem and I can't fault Obama pushing for proper funding.

The highways in Kentucky are pretty sorry. Used to have some of the best roads in the country.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

Construction, specifically bridges.

really.. My buddy was building bridges all over FL (just got laid off though.. so maybe not the same company!)