BP Gives Up

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

...(insert any word we barely know the meaning of but sounds incredibly dangerous) propaganda!!11!!1!!

And this is different from how the left called Bush a "war criminal" and "a fascist" how?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I got it! That was a joke about how she's a Russian Socialist!!!!!

Awesome! I'm catching on with these comebacks -- one day soon I'll be lobbing nifty ones like that all by myself! I'll just say "why don't we just put a hammer and sickle on the flag" or "Pelosi Plasticface" or "comrade" or "CarterELEVENTY!!!!!!" every time Riot posts anything and I'll get 10 pies per post for my quick wit and unflappable brilliance in the face of her leftist, socialist, (insert any word we barely know the meaning of but sounds incredibly dangerous) propaganda!!11!!1!!

Riot has worked so hard she is disserving of all her accolades. Don't rain on her parade.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by joeydb

And this is different from how the left called Bush a "war criminal" and "a fascist" how?

it's not.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Capitalistic free enterprise created this disaster, and I guess we'll wait for capitalistic free enterprise to contain it.

Because god forbid we have socialist government strict regulation or takeover of private business.

Even if that private business makes it's money off the resources owned collectively by all Americans, even if that private business can ruin part of the United States forever, and even if that private business can ruin the lives and businesess of millions of American citizens.

I suppose captialism caused Chernobyl as well?

I don't know anything about oil rigs (as a matter of fact there is only one poster that I know of that has ever stepped foot on one) but this seemed to be an accident. People who are proclaiming that stricter govt regulation could have prevented this are guessing as well. Acting as if BP didn't care that this happened is beyond idiotic. Everyone is monday morning quarterbacking this deal now and taking away our rights because of an accident regardless of how devastating the results are is a dangerous path. Naturally these same people (Riot) champion the rights of terrorists yet seem willing to handover private business to the govt.

Uh ok...

[Riot]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

So right comrade!

Whoosh ...

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Riot has worked so hard she is disserving of all her accolades. Don't rain on her parade.

You clearly didn't even understand the point of the post.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I suppose captialism caused Chernobyl as well?

I don't know anything about oil rigs (as a matter of fact there is only one poster that I know of that has ever stepped foot on one) but this seemed to be an accident. People who are proclaiming that stricter govt regulation could have prevented this are guessing as well. Acting as if BP didn't care that this happened is beyond idiotic. Everyone is monday morning quarterbacking this deal now and taking away our rights because of an accident regardless of how devastating the results are is a dangerous path. Naturally these same people (Riot) champion the rights of terrorists yet seem willing to handover private business to the govt.

Uh ok...

What does Chernobyl have to do with the gulf oil spill? Nothing at all, other than that it was a disaster. Ludicrous comparison.

If you think this was just an "accident", you clearly need to get up to speed on what has been publicized and verified as to what went down on that rig before 11 men were killed. It was no accident. It was a disaster waiting to happen. It was purposeful, deliberate shortcuts of safety in favor of money.

Drilling on that rig was behind schedule, millions of dollars over budget, and decisions were made before the explosion and fire to pursue less expensive, quicker, more dangerous drilling methods. Eleven men are dead.

Verified, publicized, whistleblown. You've missed this in the news, or you are just ignoring it?

Regarding the "stricter government regulation", you might note how MMS allowed BP (at BP insistence) to remove multiple safety requirements that would have prevented this disaster. BP is responsible for 97% of the safety violations in the oil industry. "Guessing" those safety requirements would have prevented it? Not true, according to those in the industry, and the whistleblowers that have already come forward about what happened on that rig before the disaster (cutting corners to save costs, etc).

You want no government interference? Here ya go. Here's the result of BP removing MMS supervision. You got it in spades - it's spilling thousands of gallons in the gulf right now, and eleven men are dead.

Why do you think OSHA even exists? Because strict, unfettered capitalism goes out of it's way to protect it's workers lives?

Kinda like the US before unions? Like China now?

Feel free to "retrain your rights" and wait for BP to clean this up all alone, with zero government supervision. Good luck with being a strict libertarian in the face of real life.

What about the rights of we Americans to not live in a hazmat zone, to keep our businesses, to fish, to have our gulf of Mexico, and the species who live there, unspoiled?

You want strict, unfettered capitalism, you have to live with the consequences. There is room for government, to protect the rights of it's citizens, to protect our resources, to protect our lives.

Naturally these same people (Riot) champion the rights of terrorists yet seem willing to handover private business to the govt.

Really? Is that the same as "you people" (Cannon) championing the rights of companies to kill their employees with no responsibility? Uh. Okay.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

And this is different from how the left called Bush a "war criminal" and "a fascist" how?

I've never called Bush a "war criminal" or a "fascist". You have a problem with those that do, call them names - not me.

[Riot]

So - Dell, Randall, Joey, Cannon, Timm -

Are you guys - who are criticizing Obama, and fear socialism, and don't want government interference in capitalistic pursuits - in favor of the government completely removing itself from involvement in the oil spill cleanup? From involvement in regulation of the oil industry?

Yes or no? Caveats?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

So - Dell, Randall, Joey, Cannon, Timm -

Are you guys - who are criticizing Obama, and fear socialism, and don't want government interference in capitalistic pursuits - in favor of the government completely removing itself from involvement in the oil spill cleanup? From involvement in regulation of the oil industry?

Yes or no? Caveats?

LOL, they dont seem to be doing anything now except saying, "We are going to make them pay!!!"

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

What does Chernobyl have to do with the gulf oil spill? Nothing at all, other than that it was a disaster. Ludicrous comparison.

If you think this was just an "accident", you clearly need to get up to speed on what has been publicized and verified as to what went down on that rig before 11 men were killed. It was no accident. It was a disaster waiting to happen. It was purposeful, deliberate shortcuts of safety in favor of money.

Drilling on that rig was behind schedule, millions of dollars over budget, and decisions were made before the explosion and fire to pursue less expensive, quicker, more dangerous drilling methods. Eleven men are dead.

Verified, publicized, whistleblown. You've missed this in the news, or you are just ignoring it?

Regarding the "stricter government regulation", you might note how MMS allowed BP (at BP insistence) to remove multiple safety requirements that would have prevented this disaster. BP is responsible for 97% of the safety violations in the oil industry. "Guessing" those safety requirements would have prevented it? Not true, according to those in the industry, and the whistleblowers that have already come forward about what happened on that rig before the disaster (cutting corners to save costs, etc).

You want no government interference? Here ya go. Here's the result of BP removing MMS supervision. You got it in spades - it's spilling thousands of gallons in the gulf right now, and eleven men are dead.

Why do you think OSHA even exists? Because strict, unfettered capitalism goes out of it's way to protect it's workers lives?

Kinda like the US before unions? Like China now?

Feel free to "retrain your rights" and wait for BP to clean this up all alone, with zero government supervision. Good luck with being a strict libertarian in the face of real life.

What about the rights of we Americans to not live in a hazmat zone, to keep our businesses, to fish, to have our gulf of Mexico, and the species who live there, unspoiled?

You want strict, unfettered capitalism, you have to live with the consequences. There is room for government, to protect the rights of it's citizens, to protect our resources, to protect our lives.



Really? Is that the same as "you people" (Cannon) championing the rights of companies to kill their employees with no responsibility? Uh. Okay.

Give me a break. Your lust to say that gov't supervision would have prevented this is typical. What about all the other things that are under govt supervision like ...securing the border? LOL

You act like the socialist way is the foolproof way yet when given the example of Chernobyl (an energy related disaster run by a govt, not private enterprise) you act as if there isn't a connection.

What is really ironic is when you "put words in our mouths" which is what we are always accused of. No one has proposed "no gov't interference". Yet some of us realize that the gov't is hardly the foolproof mechanism that you want to believe it is.

"Verified whistle blowing" is something that happens after the fact. There is no reason to believe that even with tougher regulation that something as simple as human error couldn't lead to an accident. The fact is that usurping the rights of individuals or entities because you are mad is a dangerous thing, especially in the times in which we live where the people in charge of the country (both sides) seemingly have no bounds when it comes to politicizing an issue or situation.

OSHA is a bureaucracy that does little more than exist to exist like most govt bureaucracies.

We all know that big companies like BP don't care about much other than making profits. Really that is all they are designed to do. They are going to pay a huge price for this disaster. Maybe they will even get swallowed up by another giant company and not even exist in the future. Maybe PetroChina will buy them out. Think Obama will have tough talk for them?

[Danzig]

It was my understanding that the well/rig that exploded was in the midst of being shut down. From what I read, that's the most dangerous part of drilling-stopping a well. How that has to do with greed I don't know, if they were ending oil drilling in that spot. The real issue is that they didn't have a cutoff that worked for that depth, and no relief well already in place. A relief well is required in other areas. For deep water, I guess they've now learned it should be required, since digging one takes time-as we can see
And bp leases that rig-i doubt they are the only ones to blame. U don't sue the dealer when your car is a lemon; you sue the car maker.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

So - Dell, Randall, Joey, Cannon, Timm -

Are you guys - who are criticizing Obama, and fear socialism, and don't want government interference in capitalistic pursuits - in favor of the government completely removing itself from involvement in the oil spill cleanup? From involvement in regulation of the oil industry?

Yes or no? Caveats?

In a word...no! Doesn't mean you're not a "drama queen"! Whoosh!

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Danzig

It was my understanding that the well/rig that exploded was in the midst of being shut down. From what I read, that's the most dangerous part of drilling-stopping a well. How that has to do with greed I don't know, if they were ending oil drilling in that spot. The real issue is that they didn't have a cutoff that worked for that depth, and no relief well already in place. A relief well is required in other areas. For deep water, I guess they've now learned it should be required, since digging one takes time-as we can see
And bp leases that rig-i doubt they are the only ones to blame. U don't sue the dealer when your car is a lemon; you sue the car maker.

Thank you for some common sense added to discussion

[Mike2456]

Originally Posted by Danzig

It was my understanding that the well/rig that exploded was in the midst of being shut down. From what I read, that's the most dangerous part of drilling-stopping a well. How that has to do with greed I don't know, if they were ending oil drilling in that spot.

There was quite a bit more to it within the process of "shutting the well down", and the skipped and botched steps, the argument on deck, the unapproved methods - in the name of speed and money - caused the explosion and killed those men.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/05/2...-bp-tried.html

(This is Riot, working from another computer)

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Give me a break. Your lust to say that gov't supervision would have prevented this is typical. What about all the other things that are under govt supervision like ...securing the border? LOL

You act like the socialist way is the foolproof way yet when given the example of Chernobyl (an energy related disaster run by a govt, not private enterprise) you act as if there isn't a connection.

What is really ironic is when you "put words in our mouths" which is what we are always accused of. No one has proposed "no gov't interference". Yet some of us realize that the gov't is hardly the foolproof mechanism that you want to believe it is.

"Verified whistle blowing" is something that happens after the fact. There is no reason to believe that even with tougher regulation that something as simple as human error couldn't lead to an accident. The fact is that usurping the rights of individuals or entities because you are mad is a dangerous thing, especially in the times in which we live where the people in charge of the country (both sides) seemingly have no bounds when it comes to politicizing an issue or situation.

OSHA is a bureaucracy that does little more than exist to exist like most govt bureaucracies.

We all know that big companies like BP don't care about much other than making profits. Really that is all they are designed to do. They are going to pay a huge price for this disaster. Maybe they will even get swallowed up by another giant company and not even exist in the future. Maybe PetroChina will buy them out. Think Obama will have tough talk for them?

Wow - all the straw men, false premises and gross generalizations in there, hard to know where to start.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Mike2456

There was quite a bit more to it within the process of "shutting the well down", and the skipped and botched steps, the argument on deck, the unapproved methods - in the name of speed and money - caused the explosion and killed those men.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/05/2...-bp-tried.html

(This is Riot, working from another computer)

i was typing away on my phone, which is the reason for the condensed version.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Wow - all the straw men, false premises and gross generalizations in there, hard to know where to start.

False premises?

Not just generalizations but gross generalizations?

You sound more and more like a politician every day.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

False premises?

Not just generalizations but gross generalizations?

You sound more and more like a politician every day.

save yourself chuck ,, the mental anguish from this post alone should get you a claim from bp..

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

save yourself chuck ,, the mental anguish from this post alone should get you a claim from bp..

But there are whistleblowers!