I need to listen to ATR more often

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

and it's interesting the comparison to personal ensign. she didn't get HOY either....


and i don't recall mr. phipps and shug bitching about it.


you want to be the best? beat the best. run a top campaign. don't stay in your backyard and say you're king of the hill. that's what is required to be an all-timer.

I don't think the Mosses or Shireffs ever claimed that Zenyatta was as good as Secretariat or anything like that. They know she's a mare and they treat her like a mare for the most part.

If they really thought she was as good as Secretariat, I'm sure they would be running her against the boys more often.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

It's also a problem with racing fans in general, the constant impulse to compare horses of the present to horses of the past, and it's usually unfair to the horse of the present. Instead of everyone appreciating Zenyatta for what she is, a very good mare with a beautiful and admirable will to win, rational racing fans are inundated with comparisons to Cigar and Citation and Personal Ensign and Secretariat and Picasso and Rembrandt. It's tiresome and unnecessary. Why is there such a rush to measure up the stars of today against the ghosts of the past while horses like Zenyatta are still writing their own stories?

You mean like the people last year (whether accurate or not is irrelevant if I understand your point) who were saying that Rachel was in the midst of the "greatest" campaign ever authored by a 3YO filly.

[Smooth Operator]

WOW … 10 of PE's 13 career races were at the same race track???

That's hilarious.


Gotta find out more about some of these 'monster' mares from the past (like WC) when I get a chance


By the way, you guys do realize that turf titans such as Funny Cide, Charismatic, and Mine That Bird have also won the KY Derby … right?

[Arletta]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

WOW … 10 of PE's 13 career races were at the same race track???

That's hilarious.


Gotta find out more about some of these 'monster' mares from the past (like WC) when I get a chance


By the way, you guys do realize that turf titans such as Funny Cide, Charismatic, and Mine That Bird have also won the KY Derby … right?

They won all over.. whats your point?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I don't think the Mosses or Shireffs ever claimed that Zenyatta was as good as Secretariat or anything like that. They know she's a mare and they treat her like a mare for the most part.

If they really thought she was as good as Secretariat, I'm sure they would be running her against the boys more often.

not sure why you brought up secretariat, i didn't, and if they didn't, what's the connection? i only mentioned personal ensign...
however, i do know that they were angry and disappointed that she didn't get that eclipse, and know shirreffs commented on it recently. if they wanted that, they should have done more to get it...the horse could have done it, had they entered her where they needed to. they didn't, but wanted the reward anyway. i give them props for going to the bcc, i didn't expect it.

as for her being a mare and being treated like one, i'm not sure what that's supposed to mean....this sport, more than any, is where the girls can take on the boys, with success. i do not believe for a moment that taking on the opposite sex can be more of a detriment than staying with your own. zenyatta is a big girl, she can take care of herself. if they wish to play it safe, they can't expect to be treated as taking risks.

also, neither rachel or goldikova are secretariat reborn, and they take on males.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

You mean like the people last year (whether accurate or not is irrelevant if I understand your point) who were saying that Rachel was in the midst of the "greatest" campaign ever authored by a 3YO filly.

in the context of the years since the last filly to win a preakness, and with the fact she became the first 3 yo filly to win a gr 1 unrestricted versus older males, it was one hell of a campaign....greatest ever-maybe not. but it was certainly a rare one, especially in this day and age.

[Thunder Gulch]

Zenyatta is a great horse. She is the best synthetic runner in the 5 year history of the synthetic track proliferation in the US. She proved that in the BC Classic by beating horses who largely specialized in dirt or turf. Where that SPECIALTY rates in the bigger picture is highly questionable. Until she beats a good field on dirt (Apple Blossom? Please), you can't start comparing her to the others who stand out in a 100+ year history of dirt racing. I still don't understand why people can't differentiate the two. How can you elevate synthetic superiority and not mention turf greats like Goldlikova or Ouija Board who went to battle with and defeat the best turf horses in the world multiple times?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

WOW … 10 of PE's 13 career races were at the same race track???

That's hilarious.


Gotta find out more about some of these 'monster' mares from the past (like WC) when I get a chance


By the way, you guys do realize that turf titans such as Funny Cide, Charismatic, and Mine That Bird have also won the KY Derby … right?

Man, just stop. If you are comparing Winning Colors to Charismatic and Mine That Bird to justify your ridiculous position, you are even more moronic than anyone here could possibly have imagined.

I assure you, any number of the colts that WC beat in her Derby, horses like Risen Star and Forty Niner, would have handled Zenyatta.

Your stupidity just is mind boggling.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Right, we should all be falling all over ourselves thanking the Mosses for bringing her back to beat Taptam and St Trinians. The racing world would certainly collapse into dust were we not given that privilege.

It's nice that she's still running and her stretch runs are exciting in themselves, but I'm sorry, her campaign is boring and it doesn't nearly live up to the hyperbole we're smothered with by her connections and fans.

No, no, you are the correct one, Ateam. We should all continue to rant on about the cowardice of the Mosses when any typical owners would have just retired their Breeders Cup Classic champ. What in the world are the Mosses thinking? Bringing back a champ as a 6-yr-old and running her just twice in the East. Pointing their mare to the Breeder's Cup Classic, as if that's a tough race or anything! It's ridiculous, you're right. We should all be getting excited about next year's Kentucky Derby, or something, instead.

Look, would I rather see her facing males before the BC Classic? Sure. But in an age when pretty much every Grade I winner is a candidate for "He/She's done enough" and whisked off to the breeding shed, I'm EXTREMELY glad that they brought Zenyatta back to race again.

--Dunbar

[Indian Charlie]

Just listening now.

He ranked Azeri, prior to Zenyatta anyways, as the 2nd best mare he's ever seen.

Nuff said.

He's clueless.

And if Zenyatta is the best mare he's ever seen, shouldn't she be able to beat Quality Road?

[slotdirt]

I say, once again, that you guys are absolutely insane if you think Zenyatta is crossing the Mississippi again this year. Insane.

Originally Posted by Dunbar

No, no, you are the correct one, Ateam. We should all continue to rant on about the cowardice of the Mosses when any typical owners would have just retired their Breeders Cup Classic champ. What in the world are the Mosses thinking? Bringing back a champ as a 6-yr-old and running her just twice in the East. Pointing their mare to the Breeder's Cup Classic, as if that's a tough race or anything! It's ridiculous, you're right. We should all be getting excited about next year's Kentucky Derby, or something, instead.



--Dunbar

They brought her back for selfish reasons, not for the fans. If they actually cared about the sport then they would run her against the best older males in the East on dirt. They don't want that.

They want Best in Show awards. If all they care about is awards then Moss should leave the game and invest in Broadway plays. Lord knows he would fit right in with those sissies.

We'll see if they cross the Rockies for the BC

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Just listening now.

He ranked Azeri, prior to Zenyatta anyways, as the 2nd best mare he's ever seen.

Nuff said.

He's clueless.

And if Zenyatta is the best mare he's ever seen, shouldn't she be able to beat Quality Road?

Maybe he didn't wear glasses from 1970-1995

[Indian Charlie]

Best Pal would have beaten Zenyatta as well.

Steve Zenyattawitz is hopeless!

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Look, would I rather see her facing males before the BC Classic? Sure. But in an age when pretty much every Grade I winner is a candidate for "He/She's done enough" and whisked off to the breeding shed, I'm EXTREMELY glad that they brought Zenyatta back to race again.

--Dunbar

You can't compare bringing back a mare to race to a colt being sent to the shed, it's just not realistic whatsoever. Was it good for the game for them to bring her back? Of course, but can't we get her to try at least an interesting race here and there prior to the BC? Hol Gold Cup? Pacific Classic? For God sake, maybe even the Goodwood?

NT

[slotdirt]

Folks who think she was unretired for anything other than a 2010 victory parade and some sort of potential lifetime achievement Eclipse award are delusional.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

And if Zenyatta is the best mare he's ever seen, shouldn't she be able to beat Quality Road?

This absolutely cracked me up. She's the best mare of his lifetime because of what he's seen, she could compete with the best males of the last 25 years but he wouldn't bet her to beat Quality Road? That was where he completely lost all credibility to me. He got close after comparing the 1988 BC Distaff to the 2010 Vanity.

NT

[slotdirt]

Would anybody rank Quality Road in the top 50 handicap horses of the last 25 years?

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

So thank her for two races.

And you don't see anything wrong with that?

How about we just shut the sport down completely? It's obvious cowardice is rewarded and praised.

I agree that cowardice is rewarded and praised. But what's even more rewarded and praised is retiring good horses and taking them out of the game. "It's just good business". "We want to do the best for the horse". Clap clap clap.

Shame on the Mosses for bringing Zenyatta back and only racing twice in the East. And the nerve they have of announcing her schedule far enough in advance that any filly/mare in the country could meet her if desired by the connections.

Shame, too, on Zenyatta for excelling on two surfaces, while "really" good horses can apparently only excel on one, dirt.

Shame on the Mosses for aiming so low as to win a 2nd BC Classic.

--Dunbar

[slotdirt]

Dunbar, I will bet you that Zenyatta will not race again this year outside of the Pacific time zone. Name your price. Breeders Cup Classic on dirt? I laughed.