NFL Coaching Changes: Who Should, Who Should Go

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by 3kings

In all 9 of those seasons Cowher had a QB worse than Carson Palmer. He accomplished those winning seasons with Kordell Stewert, Bubby Brister, and Neil O'Donohue. When he got a better QB he was somehow able to win a SB. Marvin Lewis should be fired, if you strive for mediocrity as a franchise you should sell the team. Marvin Lewis is a very good Defensive coordinater but a mediocre head coach.

What evidence is there that after his knee surgery that Carson Palmer is a great NFL qb?? Or for that matter even a good one?? They won last year playing defense and running the football. Not because of Carson Palmer.

His name was Neil O'Donnell.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I argue because I take the time to provide facts which are sorely missing on these boards for the most part.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Ok, I compared them. The facts I presented are the Bengals were a far superior product with Lewis for 8 years than the 12 years prior.

They still aren't good. And mediocrity shouldn't be rewarded, especially when it's getting worse.

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I displayed how bad the Steelers were in Cowher's 7th, 8th and 9th seasons at the helm.

Completely irrelevant to this discussion because of how much more successful Cowher was in his first six seasons than Lewis.

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I said the Steelers didn't fire Cowher after those 3 bad seasons.

See above.

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I stated the Bengals in 2009 swept the two participants in the 2008 AFC Championship game in their division.

Let me know when they hang that banner.

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I don't think the facts are completely in favor of firing Lewis. Period.

They overwhelmingly are. The pathetic list of 'arguments' you just listed is clear proof.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

com·pare
This might be the funniest thing you've ever said. All I've done in this thread is show you facts. All you've done is talk about how quiet he is, how you can't name anyone on the Bengals and how he's totally just like Rex Ryan and Bill Cowher.

My purpose of bringing up Cowher was to show how a great franchise does things. HE did have 3 very bad years in a row. I brought up Rex Ryan simply because he is a Jets coach. I brought him up simply to ask you how many non championship seasons would you keep him before firing him, which you never answered.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

My purpose of bringing up Cowher was to show how a great franchise does things. HE did have 3 very bad years in a row. I brought up Rex Ryan simply because he is a Jets coach. I brought him up simply to ask you how many non championship seasons would you keep him before firing him, which you never answered.

Rex Ryan has accomplished more in less than two seasons than Marvin Lewis has in eight. And for the last time, Cowher had three mediocre seasons after six outstanding ones. Show me Lewis' six outstanding seasons in a row to start his career. The Steelers kept a successful coach around. The Bengals would be keeping a mediocre-at-best one. Those are just the facts.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by 3kings

In all 9 of those seasons Cowher had a QB worse than Carson Palmer. He accomplished those winning seasons with Kordell Stewert, Bubby Brister, and Neil O'Donohue. When he got a better QB he was somehow able to win a SB. Marvin Lewis should be fired, if you strive for mediocrity as a franchise you should sell the team. Marvin Lewis is a very good Defensive coordinater but a mediocre head coach.

Brister wasn't the starter for Cowher. However, Tommy Maddox was.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

No, noone on this board can compete with me for presenting facts and logic to any debate.

Oh my god.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

What evidence is there that after his knee surgery that Carson Palmer is a great NFL qb?? Or for that matter even a good one?? They won last year playing defense and running the football. Not because of Carson Palmer.

His name was Neil O'Donnell.

Palmer waas there since 2003. How come they couldn't play defense or run the ball this year? I'll help you with this before you cherry pick some other bull crap stats. Better coaches stopped the run and made Cincy adjust. They couldn't partially because of the coach. Better coaches also found ways to attack the defense the Cincy staff couldn't adjust. That is why he should be fired.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

They overwhelmingly are. The pathetic list of 'arguments' you just listed is clear proof.

You go on and on about his lack of playoff wins. His best team he ever had back when Carson Palmer was actually a very good quarterback he tore up his knee on the first pass he threw ( a 70 yard completion.) that game. They played the whole game with Jon Kitna. That really happened. There's even color photographs.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

You go on and on about his lack of playoff wins. His best team he ever had back when Carson Palmer was actually a very good quarterback he tore up his knee on the first pass he threw ( a 70 yard completion.) that game. They played the whole game with Jon Kitna. That really happened. There's even color photographs.

So what about the other seven seasons? Let's hear the eight years of excuses. I'm sure you have the time. Or is it just 'Carson Palmer sucks!'?

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Oh my god.

God perhaps could, after that, no.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

So what about the other seven seasons? Let's hear the eight years of excuses. I'm sure you have the time. Or is it just 'Carson Palmer sucks!'?

No, Marvin Lewis wasn't good enough to make the Cincinnati Bengals a dominant NFL franchise. He wasn't near good enough. He was good enough to improve by a huge margin a terrible and pathetic franchise. I'm not sure he should get fired.

I repeat 55-137 were the Bengals the 12 years prior to Marvin coming.

56-55-1 in Marvin's first 7 years with the team.

Those are the plain and simple facts. THe 4-11 this year is enough for you to fire him. I'm simply not sure.

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Marvin Lewis is a good defensive coordinator.

I will give him that.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

THe 4-11 this year is enough for you to fire him. I'm simply not sure.

No it f'ing isn't. It's the inability to make the team more than a mediocrity in eight chances to do so. It's great that he made them not a laughingstock for a little while. But eventually, he has to do better than that. He hasn't done it and he's had plenty of time. The 4-11 is just the final straw.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Brister wasn't the starter for Cowher. However, Tommy Maddox was.

Maddox played well after the 3 years that that horseofcourse was referencing in his argument. You are mostly right about Brister, he only started a few games Cowher's rookie year.

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Brister wasn't the starter for Cowher. However, Tommy Maddox was.

Tommy Maddox is also the answer to a trivia question. He was the first and only MVP in the XFL. Remember that league? Loved watching He Hates Me play. I forgot his name but loved his shirt.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

No, Marvin Lewis wasn't good enough to make the Cincinnati Bengals a dominant NFL franchise. He wasn't near good enough. He was good enough to improve by a huge margin a terrible and pathetic franchise. I'm not sure he should get fired.

I repeat 55-137 were the Bengals the 12 years prior to Marvin coming.

56-55-1 in Marvin's first 7 years with the team.

Those are the plain and simple facts. THe 4-11 this year is enough for you to fire him. I'm simply not sure.

These stats are all good but you must factor in the salary cap. In the years of futility you are referencing there was no cap and cheap small market franchises suffered. In the salary cap era there are very few teams that have not won a playoff game in the same length of time. None with the same coach.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

No it f'ing isn't. It's the inability to make the team more than a mediocrity in eight chances to do so. It's great that he made them not a laughingstock for a little while. But eventually, he has to do better than that. He hasn't done it and he's had plenty of time. The 4-11 is just the final straw.

I feel any coach they hire will have a tough time making them a yearly NFL Super Bowl contending power or even have the success that Marvin Lewis had. The Pittsburgh Steelers have had 3 coaches in the last 41 years. They are the model to follow. He did work for Mike Brown and for the most part put a competetive team on the field every year he coached.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by 3kings

Maddox played well after the 3 years that that horseofcourse was referencing in his argument. You are mostly right about Brister, he only started a few games Cowher's rookie year.

And horseofcourse neglects to mention that free agency and the looser cap rules really opened up in those years and Pittsburgh was left with no money to compete in signing its own free agents let alone adding from other teams.

How old is riverfront stadium anyway?

edit: Old enough that the bengals havent played there in years. LOL. There goes that excuse.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by 3kings

These stats are all good but you must factor in the salary cap. In the years of futility you are referencing there was no cap and cheap small market franchises suffered. In the salary cap era there are very few teams that have not won a playoff game in the same length of time. None with the same coach.

My start of comparison is the Cleveland Browns you have to realize. I see 7 years of over .500 football and it is impossible for me to call that a bad coach! I view two 5-11 years from Mangini as actual good football. EVeryone's point of reference is different which is why I like to argue stuff that seems undefendable.