A Saratoga wrap up, best and worst

[Gander]

Delmar has some nice races on the weekends, but those undercards leave a lot to be desired. The weekdays are usually an utter mess, although tomorrow has a decent sprint stake.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Yes, that is true that Del Mar does have some crappy races but that's true everywhere. Keeneland actually runs some claiming races for lees than $10k.

Saratoga may not have as many cheap claiming races, but they have a ton of state-bred races. A lot of those races are pretty weak in terms of quality. Overall, I would give the edge in quality to Saratoga, but I certanly would not say that the quality of racing is weak at Del Mar. It's one of the best meets in the country.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Yes, that is true that Del Mar does have some crappy races but that's true everywhere. Keeneland actually runs some claiming races for lees than $10k.

Saratoga may not have as many cheap claiming races, but they have a ton of state-bred races. A lot of those races are pretty weak in terms of quality. Overall, I would give the edge in quality to Saratoga, but I certanly would not say that the quality of racing is weak at Del Mar. It's one of the best meets in the country.

Agreed. I, too, get defensive about California racing when people down the top stars for "only racing in cali". Why do the california horses have to ship east but the New York horses dont have to ship west?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Agreed. I, too, get defensive about California racing when people down the top stars for "only racing in cali". Why do the california horses have to ship east but the New York horses dont have to ship west?

I agree with you. However, the problem nowadays is that the tracks are so dangerous in California, that a guy would have to be crazy to ship to California to run his horse. If I had a horse back East, I wouldn't want to ship to California to run on those rock-hard tracks. The horse may not come back in one piece.

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Agreed. I, too, get defensive about California racing when people down the top stars for "only racing in cali". Why do the california horses have to ship east but the New York horses dont have to ship west?

this is an excellent point. i just spent the entire summer at saratoga and it was great but i have spent an entire summer at del mar and the racing was just as good. there is a huge east coast bias in horse racing. even midwestern racing does not get the respect it deserves. saratoga has plenty of 2yr old and new york bred races that leave a lot to be desired. gulfstream park had some of the worst racing in the country last year but because there are so many new york trainers there is gets a better reputation than it deserves.

[Gander]

there is a huge east coast bias in horse racing

I would agree with that. Horses like Lava Man dont get the credit they are due. I find it funny that this year's older horse division in the east is apparently so much stronger than that in the west. Exactly (besides Invasor) is so fabulous?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Gander

there is a huge east coast bias in horse racing

I would agree with that. Horses like Lava Man dont get the credit they are due. I find it funny that this year's older horse division in the east is apparently so much stronger than that in the west. Exactly (besides Invasor) is so fabulous?

As I have stated before, I don't think Invasor is anything special. I think Bernardini would beat him by 4-5 lengths.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Gander

there is a huge east coast bias in horse racing

I would agree with that. Horses like Lava Man dont get the credit they are due. I find it funny that this year's older horse division in the east is apparently so much stronger than that in the west. Exactly (besides Invasor) is so fabulous?

don't forget everyone bent over backwards to excuse st liams bad run in the big cap last year. but lava man isn't given the same consideration, when he was vanned off in his last start prior to shipping east and the far east. obviously a tired horse, obviously the trainer thought he was of sterner stuff. they're lucky they didn't ruin him for good...thankfully some time and some patience, and he's back better than ever. this is lava mans best year ever--anyone can go look at his prior years to see that he's at the top of his game.

i know a lot of people, myself included, gave mineshaft a get out of jail free card when he skipped the bcc in cali. just imagine the uproar that would erupt if they tried the same with lava man!! and he's undefeated this year, while mineshaft ( who i really like(d)) was not in his HOY year. ah, but that was different...he beat east coasters!! lol


if the west coast is as hard and difficult to run over, and stay healthy on, as we all believe it be, shouldn't lava man get that much MORE credit for doing it all year, without a blemish?????? i mean, if the easterners are such cream puffs they can't do it, how is lava man somehow the lesser???

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by jpops757

I have never attended the Spa but you guys sure make me want to. My take on Del Mar(which I have attended] is kinda kike Texas stadium. The true Cowboy fan is not there . Its a place to be seen and the true fan watches at home. Texas stadium is nothing like Philly or Wash. I would like to throw another venue out there for you to attend . Oaklawn, sounds as if it comes close to the spa except it dosent have the magnitude of the everyone is there but the atmosphere sounds very similar.

"it's the place to be seen and the true fan watches at home" is exactly why you want to see Saratoga, because the die hard fans thrive there. The people who show up that aren't there to picnic and 'spin' are like all of us here. There is just no words to describe the feeling of wandering about the track and city of Saratoga Springs both day and night. (and everyone has to stop at Siro's at some point in their lives!) I've been to nearly every corner of our country and Saratoga really is something special. If you love racing as much as I do, you can really feel a natural kinship to so many people because the racing fan is few and far between in the world, but in Saratoga, they are aplenty. I've been to Keeneland, The Derby, Oaklawn, Suffolk Downs (we all slum it sometimes ) Aqueduct and Belmont and like Oracle said, I too would give up every BC & Derby for the beauty of Saratoga.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Well 13 grade one races in one meet is the most of any meet in the country, even though its only a 6 week meet. The stars are on display.
I won't argue that with the expansion to 6 weeks that cheaper races are run more often than they ever were.
But I really don't think that if the meet was as you describe it that so many folks would come from so many places to be here for it.

You also forgot to mention that average field size went up this year and is very likely higher than most tracks....

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Revolution

this is an excellent point. i just spent the entire summer at saratoga and it was great but i have spent an entire summer at del mar and the racing was just as good. there is a huge east coast bias in horse racing. even midwestern racing does not get the respect it deserves. saratoga has plenty of 2yr old and new york bred races that leave a lot to be desired. gulfstream park had some of the worst racing in the country last year but because there are so many new york trainers there is gets a better reputation than it deserves.

One of the best things about Saratoga is all the 2 year old races. Those are my favorite races. You get to see a lot of the future stars. For me, they are the best betting races too.

Originally Posted by Sightseek

You also forgot to mention that average field size went up this year and is very likely higher than most tracks....

They wouldnt get that or care about it Sightseek. Once these West Coast diehards get on the soapbox its pretty comical.
I havent't even looked at Dle Mar's card tomorrow, I swear. And I will make a a line right now
over/under on cheap claimers or maiden claimers 4 1/2
Now I will go and look.

I was close, it was 4. But it looks like an exceptional card for them. Quite nice!!!

[Revolution]

more evidence of an east coast bias here. tomorrow's del mar card is excellent by any standard. saratoga is no better than del mar or keeneland. all three are basically the same. they all have good things about them. personally i like the keeneland meet better than saratoga and saratoga better than del mar. it all depends what you like. saratoga is very elitist though. not a fan of that.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I was close, it was 4. But it looks like an exceptional card for them. Quite nice!!!

(oh and I don't mean to be picky but you could have added Kent D's ride on Relaxed Gesture as the worst ride of the meet! The day after his car accident wasn't all that successful either)

Originally Posted by Revolution

more evidence of an east coast bias here. tomorrow's del mar card is excellent by any standard. saratoga is no better than del mar or keeneland. all three are basically the same. they all have good things about them. personally i like the keeneland meet better than saratoga and saratoga better than del mar. it all depends what you like. saratoga is very elitist though. not a fan of that.

I just said I hadn't looked. And that it was only 4.
And if you think all three are the same, you are kidding yourself. The other two run very cheap claiming races. As low as 5 grand at Keeneland, and 10 grand at Del Mar.
You do not get those at Saratoga.
I might point out, that closing day at Saratoga contained only two claiming races.
Touche!!!
And if you really wanna get into it, and want me to start pulling out facts, lets get to it!!!
Shall we compare Saturday cards at each track this past summer and see who ran more cheaper races than who, and who ran more stakes and allowances. And who has more grade one races? Sounds like fun to me.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Revolution

more evidence of an east coast bias here. tomorrow's del mar card is excellent by any standard. saratoga is no better than del mar or keeneland. all three are basically the same. they all have good things about them. personally i like the keeneland meet better than saratoga and saratoga better than del mar. it all depends what you like. saratoga is very elitist though. not a fan of that.

Keeneland is WAY easier to handicap than Saratoga...actually I think Santa Anita is as well. Speed! Speed! Speed! Since Saratoga was full swing I didn't cap much at Del Mar, but I've been told it isn't as favoring as SA.

Originally Posted by Sightseek

(oh and I don't mean to be picky but you could have added Kent D's ride on Relaxed Gesture as the worst ride of the meet! The day after his car accident wasn't all that successful either)

Well no, it wasn't worse than Milwaukee. Kent made one stupid mistake in that race. Gomez made 14 or 15 in his ride on Milwaukee. Rupert has an agenda, so dont listen to him so far as GG(you can listen to him on everything else), he has the audacity to say she had no run when clear!! LOL!!!! Well geez, after steadying and being choked 14 or 15 times for 11 panels of a 12 panel race, horses tend not to fire so hot the last 1/8th.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Yeah ain't that the truth. I actually think RG has a big shot in the Man O' War. Switches to Nakatani, who has won on the horse. That poor horse should be a multiple grade I winner right now, but has been the victim of some horrific rides the last two years.

Well he may not have to run bent in half but he will have to face Showing Up....it's going to be a good one!

Belmont - JCGC day 2006, now this is going to be a GREAT day! Invasor v. Bernardini!

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'll give you this, Belmont Day with a triple crown on the line is the most exciting 2 days I have ever been to. Now, I have been to 2 Breeders Cups, and they didn't even compare. Preview Day is a joke, I'd rather watch it from my couch. Never been to the Derby, so I can't compare it, but being at the Travers is also a great experience. Usually one of, if not the best card of the meet, and the place is so much fun. I agree that it doesn't compare to a Belmont with a TC, but a Belmont without one is no match for Travers Day.

you can not even compare a derby with the travers. derby day is probably the best day all year. the entire week is great. there are 5 grade 1's on preview day at belmont and many europeans are there. the knock on the travers is that it often does not get a third of the good horses from the derby. it is like a derby for a few east coast horses. i have been to 4 of the last 5 travers and it is usually not even the best day of the meet. you can not be serious if you say breeders cups do not compare with the travers. i am guessing you went to belmont breeders cups that do not even fill up the grandstand and you like the crowds, because you can not compare an entire day of grade 1 races with a mid summer derby that often gets just 2 or 3 good horses.