Why Lukas went downhill

[blackthroatedwind]

Hennig? You're not actually insinuating he's good....are you?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Linny

I was in Lukas' barn this summer and he had about 30 horses. He still has some for Mrs. Lewis including Simon Pure who won a race at SAR.
Those who know nothing of someone's business dealings should not profess knowledge they don't have.

I looked over every horse in the barn and saw many of them train and or race. They hardly looked abused.

DWL changed the business. He has proven to be the greatest "trainer of trainers" the game has ever seen. Pletcher, McLaughlin, Hennig, Maker and others have gone on to success. Those guys didn't get to where they are by watching a moron.

BTW, Going Wild looked great at SAR. He was second to Silver Wagon in a prep for the Forego. They skipped the Forego for an allowance and ran into Discreet Cat. He never had a "serious injury" just some of the same nagging issues that plague most race horses. He's a racehorse for crissakes. On the other thread folks are bemoainign how infrequently horses race and here Wayne's bashed for RACING his RACE HORSES!

As I've said before, none of those guys train anything like him. He hardly taught those guys to train. I'm not saying that they don't owe much of their success to him, quite to the contrary. Those guys made great contacts by working for Lukas. Not only that, but they learned a ton from Lukas about how to run an operation and about the whole business aspect of being a trainer. In terms of actual training methods, you won't find any of those guys doing anything similar to Wayne.

[Rupert Pupkin]

[quote=Linny]I was in Lukas' barn this summer and he had about 30 horses. He still has some for Mrs. Lewis including Simon Pure who won a race at SAR.
Those who know nothing of someone's business dealings should not profess knowledge they don't have.

I looked over every horse in the barn and saw many of them train and or race. They hardly looked abused.

Nobody is saying that his horses aren't well fed. I'm sure they look fine sitting in their stalls. They're not abused in that way. You have to look at the number of horses he has broken down. The numbers don't lie. Why don't you try calling some of the thoroughbred insurance companies out there. Tell them that you just bought a 2 year old and and you want to insure him. Then tell them that your trainer is Lukas and see what they say. You will see that you will have a hard time finding a company that will sell you insurance.

[Rupert Pupkin]

[quote=Dixie Porter]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Not ONLY can you not read, but you haven't got the slightest idea how to train a horse to get the most $ out of him. As far as your lame per cenatages on Allen's kid, it's to dumb for me to comment on.

BTW I have zero interest in DWL one way or the other.

You never have anything to say. You make a lot of snide comments but you you never post anything of any substance.

I have no idea if you're a smart guy or not. If you are a smart guy, nobody here will ever know it if you don't explain yourself. You say stuff like, "You don't know how to train a horse to get the most out of him."

That's not telling us anything. That's not giving us any information. If you don't think I know how to train to get the most out of a horse, then tell us what part of my thinking is wrong and tell us what the proper way to get the most out of a horse is.

You obviously had no explanation as to why Jerkens win percentage is higher when he gives his horses a break, so you simply called my percentages "lame".

If you think that anyone is going to be impressd with your knowledge by making snide remarks you are mistaken. If you really do have some knowledge, then post it. I'd be happy to hear what you have to say. Nobody is going to learn anything from your comments like "Your percentages are lame" or "You don't know how to get the most out of a horse".

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Didn't Folklore win the Filly Juvie Champ last year?

Yep, she sure did...that was one heck of a nice filly. It is a shame she had to be retired...

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Oh that must have been why he lost by 15 lengths. Otherwise he would have been right there. LOL.

considering his past performances, yes he should have been:

http://www.drf.com/row/pps/06whitney.pdf

Your earlier post:
"Who knows what they did to FA to get that big effort out of him in the BC Classic. He had just gotten beat by 15 lengths. If you have a horse with an injury and inject them to get one more race out of them, there is a good chance that they will not come back 100%. That is always the risk if you try to get one or two moe races out of a horse that is showing the beginning of a minor injury."

Big effort? He performed that day the same as races prior to the rabbit, dumb jock and the gold cup performance. So are you implying that he was on something beforehand, went off in the Gold Cup and then was put back on for the Classic?

I think Pletcher made a mistake not starting FA sooner in the year. He never cited injury as the reason for not starting him in the spring, but the desire to have a fresh horse for the fall.

[Rupert Pupkin]

[quote=Dixie Porter]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Not ONLY can you not read, but you haven't got the slightest idea how to train a horse to get the most $ out of him. As far as your lame per cenatages on Allen's kid, it's to dumb for me to comment on.

BTW I have zero interest in DWL one way or the other.

You obviously are not a very good reader either. I never said that horses who sustain serious injuries will usually come back 100%. I said that if you stop on a horse before a problem gets too serious that they will often times come back 100%.

[blackthroatedwind]

[quote=Dixie Porter]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

If you feel my opinions are weak read all my posts and get back to me. Most of the trolls have given up after 3 years. Kinda like "The Myth of Sisyphus" (Sp)

Oh yer a myth alright....a mythomaniac.

[Cajungator26]

[quote=Dixie Porter]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I'm not on here to give lessons. You want to learn it's $1500 an hour.

Personally I like hangin out with Mike, Steve and Brooklynite. Takes me back to my yoot.

If you feel my opinions are weak read all my posts and get back to me. Most of the trolls have given up after 3 years. Kinda like "The Myth of Sisyphus" (Sp)

Don't you charge by the minute? (Couldn't resist.)

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

considering his past performances, yes he should have been:

http://www.drf.com/row/pps/06whitney.pdf

Your earlier post:
"Who knows what they did to FA to get that big effort out of him in the BC Classic. He had just gotten beat by 15 lengths. If you have a horse with an injury and inject them to get one more race out of them, there is a good chance that they will not come back 100%. That is always the risk if you try to get one or two moe races out of a horse that is showing the beginning of a minor injury."

Big effort? He performed that day the same as races prior to the rabbit, dumb jock and the gold cup performance. So are you implying that he was on something beforehand, went off in the Gold Cup and then was put back on for the Classic?

I think Pletcher made a mistake not starting FA sooner in the year. He never cited injury as the reason for not starting him in the spring, but the desire to have a fresh horse for the fall.

I agree with you that he was too close to a pretty fast pace that day. I think that could have cost him 3-4 lengths but not 15.

I wasn't implying that the horse was on something in any of his races. I was saying that he probably had a minor issue such as a puffy ankle or that type of thing. They probably didn't think it was bothering him so they had no reason to treat it before the JCGC. When he ran so bad, they realized that it was bothering him so they injected the ankle for the BC Classic. I'm not saying that this is definitely waht happened. I am saying that this type of thing happens all the time and it is likely that this is the type of thing that happened with FA.

Trainers will never tell you about this type of thing. You will never heara trainer in an interview say, "The horse ran better today because we injected his ankle, knee, etc."

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

considering his past performances, yes he should have been:

http://www.drf.com/row/pps/06whitney.pdf

Your earlier post:
"Who knows what they did to FA to get that big effort out of him in the BC Classic. He had just gotten beat by 15 lengths. If you have a horse with an injury and inject them to get one more race out of them, there is a good chance that they will not come back 100%. That is always the risk if you try to get one or two moe races out of a horse that is showing the beginning of a minor injury."

Big effort? He performed that day the same as races prior to the rabbit, dumb jock and the gold cup performance. So are you implying that he was on something beforehand, went off in the Gold Cup and then was put back on for the Classic?

I think Pletcher made a mistake not starting FA sooner in the year. He never cited injury as the reason for not starting him in the spring, but the desire to have a fresh horse for the fall.

Sorry for imposing, but I'm sure that there was an injury. Late starts back usually always equate to illness or injury. That is why he has been running so poorly all year. The JCGC performance last year coupled with the BC performance, the late start back, and the poor racing performances this year are all indicators that something went amiss with FA. It's a shame too...

FA has had plenty of time to come back into form this year. Don't you think the reason that he hasn't is because of an injury? In this case, it is most likely a pretty significant injury, because most horses are running with minor ailments anyway and still manage to perform well. His performances have been horrible this year, except for the very first one. They are such fragile creatures...

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I agree with you that he was too close to a pretty fast pace that day. I think that could have cost him 3-4 lengths but not 15.

I wasn't implying that the horse was on something in any of his races. I was saying that he probably had a minor issue such as a puffy ankle or that type of thing. They probably didn't think it was bothering him so they had no reason to treat it before the JCGC. When he ran so bad, they realized that it was bothering him so they injected the ankle for the BC Classic. I'm not saying that this is definitely waht happened. I am saying that this type of thing happens all the time and it is likely that this is the type of thing that happened with FA.

Trainers will never tell you about this type of thing. You will never heara trainer in an interview say, "The horse ran better today because we injected his ankle, knee, etc."

Rupert, are you talking about the joint injections that we most likely give to show horses too? Those are perfectly legal in racing aren't they? They have made a tremendous difference in some of the horses that I have ridden. Our vet usually gives them Legend Joint Injections.

[Rupert Pupkin]

[quote=Dixie Porter]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I'm not on here to give lessons. You want to learn it's $1500 an hour.

Personally I like hangin out with Mike, Steve and Brooklynite. Takes me back to my yoot.

If you feel my opinions are weak read all my posts and get back to me. Most of the trolls have given up after 3 years. Kinda like "The Myth of Sisyphus" (Sp)

You don't sound very intelligent when you knock a person't post if you don't explain yourself. It's pointless.

There is nothing wrong with knocking a post but there is a prpoer way to do it. If you're going to disagree with a person, you should way, "I think you are wrong. Here is why." And then you explain why they are wrong. You're not adding anything to a discussion by saying "that's stupid" or "you're wrong" or that type of thing if you don't explain yourself. You need to tell a person why their comment was stupid or why it was wrong. Otherwise, your comments are empty and are a waste of our time.

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

Padua current stable

Electrify (03 c) Delaware Township - Raspberry Eggcream
Formal Appeal (03 c) Successful Appeal-Sweetbabe
Gleaming Elegance, (03 f) High Yield-Juliet's Way
Magical Baby, (04 f) Forestry-Absolute Magic
Market Share, (04 c) Sky Classic-Ma Petite Mousse
Philanderer, (04 c) Yes It's True-I'll Bedazzled
Ultimat Perfection, (04 f) Tiznow-Western Delight
War Cry, (02 c) Unbridled-Words of War
Yes It's Time, (04 c) Yes It's True-Taunting

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Rupert, are you talking about the joint injections that we most likely give to show horses too? Those are perfectly legal in racing aren't they? They have made a tremendous difference in some of the horses that I have ridden. Our vet usually gives them Legend Joint Injections.

Injecting an ankle or joint is perfectly legal.

[Assttodixie]

[quote=Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

You don't sound very intelligent when you knock a person't post if you don't explain yourself. It's pointless.

There is nothing wrong with knocking a post but there is a prpoer way to do it. If you're going to disagree with a person, you should way, "I think you are wrong. Here is why." And then you explain why they are wrong. You're not adding anything to a discussion by saying "that's stupid" or "you're wrong" or that type of thing if you don't explain yourself. You need to tell a person why their comment was stupid or why it was wrong. Otherwise, your comments are empty and are a waste of our time.

Waste of time? Waste of time? Do you realize to whom you are referring? You dont talk to the boss that way! No one talks to the boss that way!!!

Do you realize that my boss Dixie trained under Chuck Norris after he beat chuck in a round of poker?

Do you realize that my boss Dixie has forgotten more about horses than you will ever know? He learned from the great BA jones.

Now apologize before i let dixie go and he gives you an 80 year old karate chop on the side of your head.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Injecting an ankle or joint is perfectly legal.

Ok thanks, I figured so, but I didn't know for sure. The ones we use take about two weeks to fully kick in, and the horses that are having moderate to severe problems get injected about every six months. They really work though especially for about a month and a half after you administer them.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Sorry for imposing, but I'm sure that there was an injury. Late starts back usually always equate to illness or injury. That is why he has been running so poorly all year. The JCGC performance last year coupled with the BC performance, the late start back, and the poor racing performances this year are all indicators that something went amiss with FA. It's a shame too...

FA has had plenty of time to come back into form this year. Don't you think the reason that he hasn't is because of an injury? In this case, it is most likely a pretty significant injury, because most horses are running with minor ailments anyway and still manage to perform well. His performances have been horrible this year, except for the very first one. They are such fragile creatures...

Sorry, but you could convince me that Santa Claus was real before you could ever convince me that trainers don't start their horses late because of the Breeder's Cup.

A horse running better as a 4 year old is not a golden rule either.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Sorry, but you could convince me that Santa Claus was real before you could ever convince me that trainers don't start their horses late because of the Breeder's Cup.

A horse running better as a 4 year old is not a golden rule either.

Some trainers do start their horses late, and some horses are better as three year olds than four year olds. However, most trainers only start horses back late because they don't have a choice due to an illness or injury. FA won his first start back very nicely, and lost all form from there. The horse is not the same horse, and it's not because he doesn't have the talent...

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Some trainers do start their horses late, and some horses are better as three year olds than four year olds. However, most trainers only start horses back late because they don't have a choice due to an illness or injury. FA won his first start back very nicely, and lost all form from there. The horse is not the same horse, and it's not because he doesn't have the talent...

I like Flower Alley, but I think some people had their rosy tinted glasses on in regards to his talent, but you are correct he doesn't show interest in his races (but is training fine).