Poly speed disaster at keeneland - Page 4

Round Pen · #61 10-11-2006, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bid

Just got off the phone with a guy in Canada. Chiefswood Farm, they will not be running over the poly anymore, they have had 3 come back bad, and 2 not come back at all. Lots of bad reports on Woodbines track from insiders. Amazingly Keeneland and Woodbine have the same surface, lets see how long it takes Keeneland to get real

Funny thing I probably know more trainers at Woodbine than anyone else on this forum. I have spoken with 3 in the last week not going to drop names but between the 3 they have made over 600 starts at the meet. and all 3 love it. In fact one of them I speak to on a daily basis has told me that the poly has extended the careers of a few horses that more than likely would have been retired.

So this stuff is not all bad. I seem to be in the Minority here but I am not ready to codemn Poly track yet. But in the same instance I do not think every track should convert to poly either.

And Bid I am sure Chiefswood has had some bad Luck but Eric has run 9 horses in the last 30 Days and over 1/2 of them were on the Turf. And Correct me if I am wrong here they are not even stabled at the track dont they ship in from a training center.

disappearingdan_akaplaya · #62 10-11-2006, 11:44 PM

LOL its funny how all you heard in the past was people complaining that keeneland favored inside speed too much! track surfaces may change, new techology may be instituted etc etc etc but one thing will remain constant wherever there is gambling there is gonna be biatchin and whinin NO MATTER WHAT

sumitas · #63 10-11-2006, 11:58 PM

hahahar har LOLOL....

JJP · #64 10-12-2006, 12:00 AM

There is one good thing about this anti-speed bias that Kee has: when these tiring speed horses ship to other tracks, they will look worse on paper than they really are. Many juicy overlays coming at Churchill.

1st_Saturday_in_May · #65 10-12-2006, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

hmm, I'm looking at it now, lets see what our friend the Sniper has for us.
No way dude, way too much pace in there. Anything more than a lone speed horse who looks to have a 5 length lead is not a candidate for a wire job. Cotton King, Sky Diving, Dance Man, Regwell, and Shark all have speed.

REALLY like Forest Blue in that spot. If I can get close to the 7/2 ML it may be time to unload...

Pointg5 · #66 10-12-2006, 08:28 AM

Just going over for tomorrow, I see Pletcher is 10 0 3 1 .00 for the meet, when do you think the last time pletcher has had 10 starters and no winners, he's probably overjoyed...

The Bid · #67 10-12-2006, 08:39 AM

Round Pen, you are completely wrong. I wont name drop either. Im just telling you the truth, whether or not you guys want to believe it is up to you. They have had a bunch of horses come back bad, and a few not come back at all. Also, I have talked to a few other "prominent" trianers up there and they are saying the same thing, contrary to what you are saying. Lets just wait and see how it plays out rather than argue, especially when I know Im right.

It is obvious to me there is a big problem with Woodbines Poly

#68 10-12-2006, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pointg5

Just going over for tomorrow, I see Pletcher is 10 0 3 1 .00 for the meet, when do you think the last time pletcher has had 10 starters and no winners, he's probably overjoyed...

I'm sure hes thrilled.

#69 10-12-2006, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bababooyee

OMG! A track bias!

Isn't this something handicappers should be at least somewhat excited to see? It is a clear advantage to those paying attention. For example, how long did the strong speed bias at Keeneland last during the spring? Make use of this info while you can as these things come and go all the time, at lots of tracks, over lots of different surfaces.

Also, just because you don't like a particular surface, or what have you, doesn't mean you should totally forget some basics of the racing game.

Steven Davidowitz, Betting Thoroughbreds 25, 37 (2d rev. ed. 1997)

And even though it wasn't oracle's intent, those of us who can't pay as close attention should actually thank him for this info. So, in that spirit, "Thank you!" Seriously, please feel free to share as much information like this you can - it is very much appreciated (by me, at least).

Baba,
I really think that this thread was informative to people. You'd be surprised how many folks don't realize whats going on.
I just had a trainer friend of mine in NY call me. He wanted to tell me that in the 4th race today at Keeneland he heard that a firster trained by a guy that he shares a common owner with(they sometimes trade horses back and forth for the guy so he knows him well) could fly and to bet him.
I thanked hium but told him under no circumstances to bet the horse because he shows fast workouts and will likely have to make the lead to win. My friend the trainer didn't understand why that would be bad. I explained about the 29 poly races and only one wire job by a 3-5 shot who was taking a triple drop in class and was life and death to narrowly win. He was stunned. He hadn't been paying attention to it that closely down there and had no idea how bad speed was. He thanked me for stopping him from bettiing barn's payroll on the horse. And no he wasn't kidding.

Round Pen · #70 10-12-2006, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bid

Round Pen, you are completely wrong. I wont name drop either. Im just telling you the truth, whether or not you guys want to believe it is up to you. They have had a bunch of horses come back bad, and a few not come back at all. Also, I have talked to a few other "prominent" trianers up there and they are saying the same thing, contrary to what you are saying. Lets just wait and see how it plays out rather than argue, especially when I know Im right.

It is obvious to me there is a big problem with Woodbines Poly

Ok I will drop a name now because he said I could when we were talking about it this Morning. Mark Casse has probably run more horses on the Polytrack then anyone and he told me again today that he absolutley loves it plus he is at trackside an told me this morning that he has heard no one complain to him when they are talking about it.

And by the way I am not completely wrong just because the trainers I talk too love the stuff go ahead tell me who you are talking too because Mark
said he would love to talk to them to here there concerns.

1st_Saturday_in_May · #71 10-12-2006, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1st_Saturday_in_May

REALLY like Forest Blue in that spot. If I can get close to the 7/2 ML it may be time to unload...

****, he scratched

Revolution · #72 10-12-2006, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

If you are a trainer or an owner who owns or trains a horse who has speed(the trademark characteristic of good tbreds) then Keenelands new poly track is definitely not the place for you.

4 racing days so far, 29 "poly races" have yielded ONE wire to wire winner.
Sounds like a great deal to me!!! LOL!!!

Your act with the poly comments is getting old. If you don't like it, don't bet it. Not their problem.

Here is a question for you. How many horses have broken down so far? None.

#73 10-12-2006, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolution

Your act with the poly comments is getting old. If you don't like it, don't bet it. Not their problem.

Here is a question for you. How many horses have broken down so far? None.

Oh REALLY? And you know this how? Apparently up at Woodbine quite a few have, and its the same surface you mope. Ask Noble Stella how she likes it. Game mare doesn't miss a dance in years, runs often and hits hard. She works on poly and bang, shes gone. But I'm sure you have a canned response ready for that huh?

Seattleallstar · #74 10-12-2006, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

Oh REALLY? And you know this how? Apparently up at Woodbine quite a few have, and its the same surface you mope. Ask Noble Stella how she likes it. Game mare doesn't miss a dance in years, runs often and hits hard. She works on poly and bang, shes gone. But I'm sure you have a canned response ready for that huh?

its a freak injury, Polytrack is racings savior

Revolution · #75 10-12-2006, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

Oh REALLY? And you know this how? Apparently up at Woodbine quite a few have, and its the same surface you mope. Ask Noble Stella how she likes it. Game mare doesn't miss a dance in years, runs often and hits hard. She works on poly and bang, shes gone. But I'm sure you have a canned response ready for that huh?

You are so biased it is pointless to argue. Quite a few broke down at Del Mar and Saratoga this summer. I put the quality of horses at Keeneland in the same category, and I have read none have broken down. I didn't even have to read about Saratoga and Del Mar. They broke down in races. Stick to facts. Real ones. Not the ones in Oracleland.

Revolution · #76 10-12-2006, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

Any guess as to when the first Breeders' Cup will be held on Polytrack? What about Santa Anita in 2008 or 2009? Since it last held the Cup in 2003 -- I was there and loved 90 degree temps in late October -- it might be in the running to host again relatively soon.

Hopefully soon. We then will get plenty of europeans and horses from other parts of the world.

Seattleallstar · #77 10-12-2006, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolution

You are so biased it is pointless to argue. Quite a few broke down at Del Mar and Saratoga this summer. I put the quality of horses at Keeneland in the same category, and I have read none have broken down. I didn't even have to read about Saratoga and Del Mar. They broke down in races. Stick to facts. Real ones. Not the ones in Oracleland.

yeah no kidding

#78 10-12-2006, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolution

You are so biased it is pointless to argue. Quite a few broke down at Del Mar and Saratoga this summer. I put the quality of horses at Keeneland in the same category, and I have read none have broken down. I didn't even have to read about Saratoga and Del Mar. They broke down in races. Stick to facts. Real ones. Not the ones in Oracleland.

Well thats just swell. Then again at most major tracks in a 4 day sample you wont get breakdowns either, but there I go using common sense again. Sorry about that, I don't wanna frighten you or anything.

Revolution · #79 10-12-2006, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

Well thats just swell. Then again at most major tracks in a 4 day sample you wont get breakdowns either, but there I go using common sense again. Sorry about that, I don't wanna frighten you or anything.

Facts are facts. Fewer horses breakdown on poly. Turfway Park illustrated this and now Keeneland has had nothing but one breakdown on the turf. That is it.

I for one am glad to see horses can come off the pace and win. It is more exciting than watching a horse break to the lead and never look back. That is why turf racing is much better than dirt racing too.

#80 10-12-2006, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolution

Facts are facts. Fewer horses breakdown on poly. Turfway Park illustrated this and now Keeneland has had nothing but one breakdown on the turf. That is it.

I for one am glad to see horses can come off the pace and win. It is more exciting than watching a horse break to the lead and never look back. That is why turf racing is much better than dirt racing too.

Any comments on Woodbine?