Eclipse /Turf Male

[Gander]

I dont think thats the bias talking Kev. I really think the turf division is defined by 3 races- BC Turf and BC Mile, and teh Arlington Million. I really think the experts feel that in order to win the eclipse you need to win at least one of those races.

I would agree that the guys on TVG hold a west coast bias but I was speaking of horse racing in a broader sense. Writers and fans typically give more creedence to those horses based on the east coast and weigh races that are held at Belmont, Saratoga and Churchill with very high regard.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Gander

I dont think thats the bias talking Kev. I really think the turf division is defined by 3 races- BC Turf and BC Mile, and teh Arlington Million. I really think the experts feel that in order to win the eclipse you need to win at least one of those races.

I would agree that the guys on TVG hold a west coast bias but I was speaking of horse racing in a broader sense. Writers and fans typically give more creedence to those horses based on the east coast and weigh races that are held at Belmont, Saratoga and Churchill with very high regard.

Well, a horse can only run in 2 of those 3 races. MA ran in one, TTM ran in one. At least EC put in an effort and ran in 2 of the 3.

I would have ZERO problem if they had given TTM the eclipse, but I just that MA didn't do enough to merit the Eclipse. Winning the BC Mile was great, but not enough for me..

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by T3B

Well, a horse can only run in 2 of those 3 races. MA ran in one, TTM ran in one. At least EC put in an effort and ran in 2 of the 3.

I would have ZERO problem if they had given TTM the eclipse, but I just that MA didn't do enough to merit the Eclipse. Winning the BC Mile was great, but not enough for me..

Which means he had more chances than either TTM or MA to win even one of them.....

[GPK]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Which means he had more chances than either TTM or MA to win even one of them.....

GFY

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by T3B

GFY

Hey K, it is what it is....

[GPK]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Hey K, it is what it is....

MA and EC faced once this year...who won that race?

[Gander]

I agree. MA is a damn nice horse and its nice to see him ressurect his career from when Billy Mott use to have him and he use to burn money as the favorite. Its also very fitting that he was the horse who beat Jerry Bailey and Silver Tree in Jerry's last ride, considering Jerry use to ride the horse all the time.

The BC holds so much and its just plain wrong. Yes I love the day, one of my favorite days all year long, but you need to look at races like the Arlington Million and the other grade 1's too.

You know what I found amazing was Bishop Court Hill got as many votes (1) as Bordonaro did for champion sprinter! Bordonaro beat Thors Echo 2 out of 3 times and Thors Echo was a well deserved winner of the Eclipse. Funny thing is I am pretty sure I know the guy who voted for Bishop Court Hill.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by T3B

MA and EC faced once this year...who won that race?

Touché. That argument is baseless.

Lewis Michael and Henny Hughes faced off once this year. Who got the better of that matchup?

Proves nothing.

Plus, I already admitted earlier this thread that EC is a better horse, just didn't when when it counted.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Touché. That argument is baseless.

Lewis Michael and Henny Hughes faced off once this year. Who got the better of that matchup?

Proves nothing.

Plus, I already admitted earlier this thread that EC is a better horse, just didn't when when it counted.

I just think the WHOLE YEAR needs to be taken into consideration and when you do that, BOTH TTM and EC had more complete years than did MA.

[RAWSKILLZ]

ALL 3 ran some not so good races

Well Ole Tinny did run that not so good race in the Dubai Turf,,,so I dont think that is really a "not so good" race.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by PPerfectfan

ALL 3 ran some not so good races

Well Ole Tinny did run that not so good race in the Dubai Turf,,,so I dont think that is really a "not so good" race.

running second to a horse that would have been likely odds-on in the BC Turf?

Not a bad race by any stretch.

[Gander]

Somebody please enlighten me as to what race the Tin Man ran that was "not so good" ?

To me his least impressive race was that last race where he was life and death to hold on at odds on. But he still won and most horses on their not so good days would be passed.

David Junior would have beaten any horse in the universe that day in Dubai. Running a game second to him is no disgrace.

[RAWSKILLZ]

Somebody please enlighten me as to what race the Tin Man ran that was "not so good" ?

Oh believe me, when I said that it was with tounge firmly in cheek. Tinny ran no worse than 2nd this year, and that came to a very,very nice horse, that the connections decided to try the dirt for some strange reason. Maybe that made the 2nd look less than spectular?? maybe? I just think its crazy.

[Gander]

Maybe that made the 2nd look less than spectular??

You know, that is an excellent theory. The fact David Junior decided to run in the Classic and pooped out instead of running in the turf may have cost Tin Man an eclipse. That and the fact of the vicious east coast bias that remains in place.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Gander

Somebody please enlighten me as to what race the Tin Man ran that was "not so good" ?

To me his least impressive race was that last race where he was life and death to hold on at odds on. But he still won and most horses on their not so good days would be passed.

David Junior would have beaten any horse in the universe that day in Dubai. Running a game second to him is no disgrace.

Tim, yes he won the Clement Hirsch...all out to hold off TH Approval. Then take into consideration how God Awful TH ran in his next race out...the Clement Hirsch came up kinda weak...

[Gander]

I agree, that to me was his worst race of the year. TH Approval is no worse a horse than those penguins EC dusted on Jockey Club Gold Cup Day.


Not arguing with you. We both are thinking the same...Miesques Approval

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Gander

I agree, that to me was his worst race of the year. TH Approval is no worse a horse than those penguins EC dusted on Jockey Club Gold Cup Day.


Not arguing with you. We both are thinking the same...Miesques Approval

they were penguins, no doubt, but at least EC wasnt all out to hold them off...

again...if TTM wins, I would have agreed with the decision...but MA was 3rd best turf horse this year...maybe 4th...

anyways...no big deal. Congrats to Wolfson, who I love as a turf trainer and to Live Oak. They did a remarkable turn around with MA and have alot to be proud of.

All I'm going to say is that MA winning the award is still better than the voters going into a zombie-like state and handing the Eclipse over to whichever European swooped in and won the BC Turf.

[RAWSKILLZ]

I thought it was interesting that every horse that won and Eclipse also ran in the BC. I should have known Tinny didnt stand a chance. ;(