mccain's vp

Originally Posted by dalakhani

But Clinton made an obvious mistake with NAFTA and it was further supported by the sitting president.

Yes, I would consider NAFTA a massive bungle and yes Clinton can own much of it.

Has it ever occured to you that both of them have profited tremendously due to these trade agreements? And if so, why are you so passionate about your party?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And this is a good plan? Families making over 250k are now considered rich? Capital gains taxes are good? The AMT is good? And you call yourself a capitalist? I'm sure you thought the John Brunetti Hialeah takeout "plan" was a good one too.

AMT is GOOD. I can tell you from experience that if not for AMT my effective tax rate would be about _____. And the rich can say the same thing.

Capital gains taxes arent good but necessary.

Do you question Warren Buffet's capitalist nature? He is in favor of these tax policies.

Families making over 250k arent rich but have you done the math on how much added burden a 250k family would have to take on?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by GPK

So is it too much to ask for people to live within their means...be it for 2 years or 100 years. At some point in time, people have to take personal responsibility for choosing to live like that. Is that asking too much?

No its not. But GPK, do you have kids? Try living on the median household income with a family of four in most metro cities I see these people every day. Many of them are just struggling to get by.

If you don't have kids, do the math. It will really sober you.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Scuds it sounds like you think Z and I are rolling in the bucks and defending the wealthy. You make the whole poor v. rich thing sound like it is so simple. Bill Clinton knocked more people off of welfare than any other president. He put them to work, essentially made them work with a swift kick in the behind from a Rep. congress.
I am one of the silly people that think working and working hard, is a very rewarding experience if you do what you like. Even if you dont make much money. Jobs. Jobs. Jobs. And we better wake up because the types of jobs that will be required to make enough money in this country to live in relative comfort require a brain that functions.

Sorry for the silly personal stuff that I wrote, but sometimes its required so you get an idea where a poster is coming from. Its embarassing but necessary.

I never take what you or Zig say all that seriously. I realize you are from Texas, and she is living in Arkansas. You're both gunna have neck thinking contamination(no matter what.) It just can't be helped.O.K. You're gunna laugh at that, but look at what you preach:

"You dont make stronger middle class through government redistribution of wealth. You make a stronger middle class by changing ideas."


I mean it's simply asanine for you to keep repeating something that's been disproved for so long now. What exactly do you think the progressive tax system is now doing for the middle class as compared to the rich? IT'S STRENGTHENING IT. You don't think it's redistributing wealth to charge a lower % income tax on the middle class than on the rich? It is, sir, and doing it will continue to strengthen the middle class. You couldn't afford to be a teacher if their wasn't redistribution of wealth. You think in a free market system (that you so boldly say works for everyone all the time) you would be able to get that pension? No. That's forced income redistribution. That's not the way people would act if left to their own greed. You would get no pension of any real quality. People are too cheap to pay teachers a decent pension. They are forced(by wealth redistribution) to pay teachers the salaries n' pensions they are paying them. You don't even realize that your benefiting from what you say doesn't work(wealth redistribution.) It's working for you. Teachers getting paid a reasonable salary and good pension is a very good example of wealth redistribution. You may not think it's much wealth, but it's a lot more than you would get in a free market situation. People don't choose to pay you that. They are mandated to pay you through taxes. That's wealth redistribution. If it was up to the free market, you would get maybe 3/4 what you get now, and you'd get a handshake out the door when you retire. That's it.

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

AMT is GOOD. I can tell you from experience that if not for AMT my effective tax rate would be about _____. And the rich can say the same thing.

Capital gains taxes arent good but necessary.

Do you question Warren Buffet's capitalist nature? He is in favor of these tax policies.

Families making over 250k arent rich but have you done the math on how much added burden a 250k family would have to take on?

I say he's tapping Becky Quick.....

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Has it ever occured to you that both of them have profited tremendously due to these trade agreements? And if so, why are you so passionate about your party?

This is the Coach Pants i like.

Listen im not blind to the fact that corruption is bipartisan. I dont think Obama can live up to a lot he has promised. None of them ever do.

I just think that obama would do a better job of representing us in the next four years based on his policies and based on the way he presents himself.

Personally, McCain's plan will do better for ME. Bush has done GREAT for me. At the same time, I worry about this country longterm.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by geeker2

I say he's tapping Becky Quick.....

LOL I think you might have a point.

Originally Posted by GPK

Well...I drive an Accord. So I guess I am just stuck with 1 outta 3

I also drive the Japanese car. A 1996.
I would be two out of three. Small car, pud.

We should have bought American?

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by GPK

Well...I drive an Accord. So I guess I am just stuck with 1 outta 3

It's gotta low profile,though.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

AMT is GOOD. I can tell you from experience that if not for AMT my effective tax rate would be about _____. And the rich can say the same thing.

Capital gains taxes arent good but necessary.

Do you question Warren Buffet's capitalist nature? He is in favor of these tax policies.

Families making over 250k arent rich but have you done the math on how much added burden a 250k family would have to take on?

AMT is not good, it is misguided and outdated and needs to be at least altered to the times.

Warren Buffet's opinion is the opinion of a guy who sits a long ways away from the real world of the "middle class". Maybe he is simply he is a typical billionaire who feels guilty about making so much money. The Bleeding heart billionaire.

Any extra burden on a $250k family is too much. Or should people who live in big cities where a $250k family is middle class not count?

What is interesting is that many of the same people who go absolutely nuts if a racetrack raises takeout are card carrying, raise the taxes Dems.

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

It's time for Dannie to CHANGE!

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

It's gotta low profile,though.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

AMT is not good, it is misguided and outdated and needs to be at least altered to the times.

Warren Buffet's opinion is the opinion of a guy who sits a long ways away from the real world of the "middle class". Maybe he is simply he is a typical billionaire who feels guilty about making so much money. The Bleeding heart billionaire.

Any extra burden on a $250k family is too much. Or should people who live in big cities where a $250k family is middle class not count?

What is interesting is that many of the same people who go absolutely nuts if a racetrack raises takeout are card carrying, raise the taxes Dems.

AMT is necessary and you know it is. Altered? perhaps...but you have to agree that it is necessary.

Any burden on a 250k family is too much? How can you say this unilaterally when not taking into account many other factors?

I think your racetrack analogy is off. Bitching about takeout and bad rides is bipartisan.

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I mean it's simply asanine for you to keep repeating something that's been disproved for so long now. What exactly do you think the progressive tax system is now doing for the middle class as compared to the rich? IT'S STRENGTHENING IT. You don't think it's redistributing wealth to charge a lower % income tax on the middle class than on the rich? It is, sir, and doing it will continue to strengthen the middle class. You couldn't afford to be a teacher if their wasn't redistribution of wealth. You think in a free market system (that you so boldly say works for everyone all the time) you would be able to get that pension? No. That's forced income redistribution. That's not the way people would act if left to their own greed. You would get no pension of any real quality. People are too cheap to pay teachers a decent pension. They are forced(by wealth redistribution) to pay teachers the salaries n' pensions they are paying them. You don't even realize that your benefiting from what you say doesn't work(wealth redistribution.) It's working for you. Teachers getting paid a reasonable salary and good pension is a very good example of wealth redistribution. You may not think it's much wealth, but it's a lot more than you would get in a free market situation. People don't choose to pay you that. They are mandated to pay you through taxes. That's wealth redistribution. If it was up to the free market, you would get maybe 3/4 what you get now, and you'd get a handshake out the door when you retire. That's it.

You have no idea how teachers in Texas are payed.
The statement you made is absolutely silly. The Federal
Gov. pays about 2% of my wages. I just got a 3% pay increase.
Its nothing.

Scuds, who do you think pays the vast majority of my salary?
You have no idea how teachers retirement plans in Texas work either.

So you tax the hell out of wealthy people and redistribute.
So where do you start now? What is wealthy? What % of their money
do you want redistributed since the current system does not work.
What will work. Give me your plan. 50% for millionaires...? what level do you
start and what %.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

AMT is not good, it is misguided and outdated and needs to be at least altered to the times.

Warren Buffet's opinion is the opinion of a guy who sits a long ways away from the real world of the "middle class". Maybe he is simply he is a typical billionaire who feels guilty about making so much money. The Bleeding heart billionaire.

Any extra burden on a $250k family is too much. Or should people who live in big cities where a $250k family is middle class not count?

What is interesting is that many of the same people who go absolutely nuts if a racetrack raises takeout are card carrying, raise the taxes Dems.

that's a very good point that gets largely ignored. some parts of the country (such as here) that is a TON of money. other places, not so much. tony and i have it made down here as for the most part the cost of living is really low. my house payment is incredibly low, property down here is cheap. by the same token, the federal minimum wage stretches a lot further here than anywhere-most states min wage is higher than the federal. speaking of the minimum wage, we just had a hike on that-and is it just coincidence that unemployment grew at the same time? i know here locally it's not a coincidence. my daugher got let go a month before leaving for college, along with a coworker, due to the hike. small businesses down here couldn't handle the increase, which happened at the same time that volume was decreasing due to oil and fuel prices.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I never take what you or Zig say all that seriously. I realize you are from Texas, and she is living in Arkansas. You're both gunna have neck thinking contamination(no matter what.) It just can't be helped.O.K. You're gunna laugh at that, but look at what you preach:

"You dont make stronger middle class through government redistribution of wealth. You make a stronger middle class by changing ideas."


I mean it's simply asanine for you to keep repeating something that's been disproved for so long now. What exactly do you think the progressive tax system is now doing for the middle class as compared to the rich? IT'S STRENGTHENING IT. You don't think it's redistributing wealth to charge a lower % income tax on the middle class than on the rich? It is, sir, and doing it will continue to strengthen the middle class. You couldn't afford to be a teacher if their wasn't redistribution of wealth. You think in a free market system (that you so boldly say works for everyone all the time) you would be able to get that pension? No. That's forced income redistribution. That's not the way people would act if left to their own greed. You would get no pension of any real quality. People are too cheap to pay teachers a decent pension. They are forced(by wealth redistribution) to pay teachers the salaries n' pensions they are paying them. You don't even realize that your benefiting from what you say doesn't work(wealth redistribution.) It's working for you. Teachers getting paid a reasonable salary and good pension is a very good example of wealth redistribution. You may not think it's much wealth, but it's a lot more than you would get in a free market situation. People don't choose to pay you that. They are mandated to pay you through taxes. That's wealth redistribution. If it was up to the free market, you would get maybe 3/4 what you get now, and you'd get a handshake out the door when you retire. That's it.

really? all that discussing further back, when we had common ground, none of that was serious? or is it only blown off when it varies with your take on things?
btw, how's medical doing lately? how much did your hospitals out there take it for again?

[geeker2]

SCUDS we maybe in trouble..GOP is reconsidering and may taking a stab at winning California.

I really don't want my head to explode...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

AMT is necessary and you know it is. Altered? perhaps...but you have to agree that it is necessary.

Any burden on a 250k family is too much? How can you say this unilaterally when not taking into account many other factors?

I think your racetrack analogy is off. Bitching about takeout and bad rides is bipartisan.

I dont believe that AMT is necessary but if it is going to stay (mostly for political reasons because god forbid anyone be seen as helping the "rich") than it absolutely should be adjusted to modern income levels.

How can you say that $250k is the number at which it is ok to add burden? Especially considering the wide gap in CoL throughout the country? Surely a family living in manhattan versus a family living in Montana is an important factor?

My racetrack analogy isnt off, what is the difference? Raising takeout is akin to raising taxes because in theory the extra takeout is used to make improvements or added to purses to put on a better product. But as in govt, that rarely happens and in the end all it succeeds in is taking money that would add to handle (the economy) out of circulation which shrinks handle.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by geeker2

SCUDS we maybe in trouble..GOP is reconsidering and may taking a stab at winning California.

I really don't want my head to explode...

i read that one poll has them neck and neck, while another has mccain ten points ahead among likely voters. the gap is smaller among registered voters.

but the debates are still to come, so we'll see. i might watch those. far more entertaining than the conventions, i didn't watch any of either one. too much rah rahing for my taste. and the folks who dress up, what's up with that?!

[GPK]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

No its not. But GPK, do you have kids? Try living on the median household income with a family of four in most metro cities I see these people every day. Many of them are just struggling to get by.

If you don't have kids, do the math. It will really sober you.

None that I know about.

I am in contact on a daily basis with people like this and many that are worse off than that.

How many of these people you see every day are working a 2nd job?