Rags!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Stall Mucker

What a Belmont. I liked Rags from the time of entry and she did not disappoint.
Yes, I got the sick feeling at the start and was screamin at the finish. The dog is now avoiding me.

you too huh? what is it with dogs, you start yelling, they automatically assume it's at them...such a guilt complex!

[ArlJim78]

Rags had about the same trip as Curlin, except for stumbling at the start and racing wider.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

he's running faster to the shed than he has to the finish line in these grade ones because of his pedigree--just like holy roman emperor, who didn't even start at three! it is a shame.

now you have to wonder if he runs again. i hope he does, but darley might not want him to.

Holy Roman Emperor was a flukey deal where he replaced a stallion that already had a huge and strong group of mare booked. Hard Spun's pedigree while nice is not strong enough to warrant early retirement without major wins. I'm sure Darley wants him to run again because he needs to win something.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Rags had about the same trip as Curlin, except for stumbling at the start and racing wider.

What else do you want? The psycho chinese guy from the Artax race?

[Travis Stone]

For those comparing Beyers to determine where she belong on the list of all-time greats please remember that Beyer speed figures measure speed and speed only. They do not measure heart, and they do not measure class, for which Rags to Riches has both.

It's amazing -- we see an awesome horse race, with two classy, fast and amazing individuals battle head-and-head down the stretch, and already the naysayers and dissenters are out in force about her place in history.

To me, history is winning a classic horse race. Check. (Belmont Stakes..and Oaks)

To me, history is overcoming obstacles. Check (wide-trip).

And finally, history is doing something unusual, extraordinary, out-of-the-norm..double check (A filly beats the boys, and answers a classy foes every attempt at the lead).

Is she the greatest of all time? Can't say yes or no to that, but I can say she was the greatest today.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Holy Roman Emperor was a flukey deal where he replaced a stallion that already had a huge and strong group of mare booked. Hard Spun's pedigree while nice is not strong enough to warrant early retirement without major wins. I'm sure Darley wants him to run again because he needs to win something.

yeah, it was a flukey deal.

of course porter doesn't have a done deal, it was supposed to be settled after the belmont today. altho i'm sure they still buy his rights, they just got them cheaper.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

For those comparing Beyers to determine where she belong on the list of all-time greats please remember that Beyer speed figures measure speed and speed only. They do not measure heart, and they do not measure class, for which Rags to Riches has both.

It's amazing -- we see an awesome horse race, with two classy, fast and amazing individuals battle head-and-head down the stretch, and already the naysayers and dissenters are out in force about her place in history.

To me, history is winning a classic horse race. Check. (Belmont Stakes..and Oaks)

To me, history is overcoming obstacles. Check (wide-trip).

And finally, history is doing something unusual, extraordinary, out-of-the-norm..double check (A filly beats the boys, and answers a classy foes every attempt at the lead).

Is she the greatest of all time? Can't say yes or no to that, but I can say she was the greatest today.

i think she showed tremendous courage, every time curlin came at her, she turned him back.
it'd be nice if those kind of entries happened more often. i think people are surprised when fillies do so well, because they are under the false assumption that fillies can't compete on that level, when those of us who follow this sport know it happens quite often--albeit overseas.

curlin showed that kind of grit in the preakness, and tried his heart out today. but the filly was a bit better.

it was a great race, very exciting. it's one to remember for sure.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

It's amazing -- we see an awesome horse race, with two classy, fast and amazing individuals battle head-and-head down the stretch, and already the naysayers and dissenters are out in force about her place in history.

why are you a naysayer to objectively analyzed a race and a horses ability? I think if somone just jumps on the bandwagon and say a horse is great without looking at all the context that is the real disservice.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'm happy you won ....Curlin had a dream trip...she didn't.

You very well could be right...

I'll let everyone know where I stand when I've had the time to carefully study the replays and result charts for every other dirt race on the card.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Is she the greatest of all time? Can't say yes or no to that, but I can say she was the greatest today.

Look, I said she'd win the Kentucky Oaks after I saw her break her maiden earlier in the year--and was very under the radar.

I argued with a few people here, mainly MisterB, that she absolutley belonged in the race...

She basically ran her race today.....and her race was good enough to beat Curlin and Hard Spun at 12 furlongs.

Does that make her an all-time great filly? You obviously BADLY misunderstood the point I made about her figures---as the point flattered her.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Look, I said she'd win the Kentucky Oaks after I saw her break her maiden earlier in the year--and was very under the radar.

I argued with a few people here, mainly MisterB, that she absolutley belonged in the race...

She basically ran her race today.....and her race was good enough to beat Curlin and Hard Spun at 12 furlongs.

Does that make her an all-time great filly? You obviously BADLY misunderstood the point I made about her figures---as the point flattered her.

I'm certainly not willing to compare her to Ruffian or the greatest ever, Kincsem but she certainly has shown almost unlimited potential...we'll see how she does against older and then comparisons may or may not be appropriate!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I'm certainly not willing to compare her to Ruffian or the greatest ever, Kincsem but she certainly has shown almost unlimited potential...we'll see how she does against older and then comparisons may or may not be appropriate!

enough with the Kincsem please.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I'm certainly not willing to compare her to Ruffian or the greatest ever, Kincsem but she certainly has shown almost unlimited potential...we'll see how she does against older and then comparisons may or may not be appropriate!

I've seen some spectacular fillies.....she's every bit as dominant as any of them have been in their own division...but there is nothing else in her own division (as an example, wide trip Cotton Blossom chugged home in the Acorn today) --- and, we all know that there are only three real good males in the 3-year-old crop...

They being Curlin, Street Sense, and Hard Spun --- one of them didn't show up for the race today, the other has VERY suspect breeding for 12 furlongs and has done a lot in a short amount of time, the other consistantly runs "fast early-slow late" race shapes...and was suspect at this distance because of that.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Rags To Riches performance....but, I've seen some really outstanding fillies before...and she still needs to develop and improve to reach their level.

People also shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the 12 furlong distance of the Belmont was totally to her benefit. Is she an all-time great filly at a 12 furlong distance? I don't know....but, at that distance anyway, she's probably as good as any I've ever seen.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

enough with the Kincsem please.

Why? She's the standard by which I judge all fillies and mares, you can agree or disagree but my opinion is as valid as your's!

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I guess I'm getting old but making a good account of himself doesn't really equate into freak status. He is a very good horse who has accomplished much in a short period of time but I like my freaks to win.

On another note- I think that the purchase and pending retirement of Hard Spun is one of the really distressing signs of trouble in our sport. I mean it is one thing to retire horses who WIN classic races early, but to rush horses like him to the shed without ever winning a major race is a sad thing. Not to say he wont(though I would bet against it) but he was sold for multiple grade 1 money and he is a zero time grade 1 winner.

Very Good point Chuck!!

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I've seen some spectacular fillies.....she's every bit as dominant as any of them have been in their own division...but there is nothing else in her own division (as an example, wide trip Cotton Blossom chugged home in the Acorn today) --- and, we all know that there are only three real good males in the 3-year-old crop...

They being Curlin, Street Sense, and Hard Spun --- one of them didn't show up for the race today, the other has VERY suspect breeding for 12 furlongs and has done a lot in a short amount of time, the other consistantly runs "fast early-slow late" race shapes...and was suspect at this distance because of that.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Rags To Riches performance....but, I've seen some really outstanding fillies before...and she still needs to develop and improve to reach their level.

People also shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the 12 furlong distance of the Belmont was totally to her benefit. Is she an all-time great filly at a 12 furlong distance? I don't know....but, at that distance anyway, she's probably as good as any I've ever seen.

I agree, just saying she appears to have that kind of potential, only time will determine whether she realizes it!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Why? She's the standard by which I judge all fillies and mares, you can agree or disagree but my opinion is as valid as your's!

How in the world can you compare a Hungarian filly who raced in the 1800's to modern horses? It is not an opinion thing but a relevance thing.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

How in the world can you compare a Hungarian filly who raced in the 1800's to modern horses? It is not an opinion thing but a relevance thing.

No doubt about it.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I agree, just saying she appears to have that kind of potential, only time will determine whether she realizes it!

A lot of the very good fillies I've seen through the years have never had the chance to run against males--in the type of race that was totally to their benefit.

If anyone remembers back to 1992, a 3-year-old filly named Jolypha came over from Europe...she ran 3rd in the Breeders Cup Classic in her dirt debut, losing to only A. P. Indy (R2R's sire) and Pleasant Tap (Tiago's sire)

I just hope that people don't lose sight of the fact that Rags to Riches was much better suited for a race like the Belmont....than her other main rivals in there. Pletcher would have been a fool to not run her....and to his credit, he's no fool.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

At what point in the stretch did the gambling dollars leave your mind and the fan in you kick-in? That was awesome, what a horse race.

Great point, for me it was about midstretch when I realized she was going to do this thing and the crowd started going crazy!!