Godolphin/Darley article

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

I meant in general.

I do not see the difference between that and this though. Many of you guys were disgusted about what happened with Premium Tap with the sale etc, but i can't be annoyed when Godolphin buy a number of good horses over here?

Anyway, it doesn't matter now.

As far as i'm concerned i know the truth, and i suppose that is all that matters now.

i'll sleep better, now that I know the truth that is.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I guess you really have no clue how pro-Coolmore you come off. No point in arguing it further.

Well, believe me when i say it. I am not pro coolmore. If they were doing the same as Godolphin, i would be bashing them, too...... but they don't do what Godolphin do.

I was annoyed with HRE going to stud, and at first i was disgusted, but i can see why they did it now, and although i'm still not happy with them for doing it, i can see why they did it and it will probably pay dividends for them in the long run. With GW infertile, they knew they were about to lose hundreds and hundreds in stallion fees from mare owners, and the only way they were going to limit that loss as much as possible was the replace him with the next best Danehill. I wish they hadn't and i don't agree with people sending horses to stud so early as a racing fan, but it's a business and there is much more money to be made from breeding, especially with the shocking prize money in Europe (especially England and Ireland) currently.

I wished Dubawi would have raced for another year, because i think he was still improving when he was retired, but i realised why they did it, they wanted to get the stallion fees in while he was fit and healthy. It's a shame the industry has gone like that.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

Jesus do you have any clue how pompous and ridiculous that sounds?????

Feel like i need to kneel down now and kiss your ring or something.

You can pontificate all you like..... it doesn't make you right.

oh jeez you beat me to the punch. this is what I wanted to say.

Behold everyone!! the great one has spoken and you now know the truth!!
mark it on stone tablets to preserve for all time!!

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

Well, believe me when i say it. I am not pro coolmore. If they were doing the same as Godolphin, i would be bashing them, too...... but they don't do what Godolphin do.

You sure sound like it!

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

Jesus do you have any clue how pompous and ridiculous that sounds?????

Feel like i need to kneel down now and kiss your ring or something.

You can pontificate all you like..... it doesn't make you right.

Maybe so, but i'm pretty confident i do know the truth, especially with the information i have been given. It frustrates me because i know this information is legit.

I just really wish i could introduce you to these people, that's all.

I haven't meant to hurt or upset any of you, i'm sorry

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

oh jeez you beat me to the punch. this is what I wanted to say.

Behold everyone!! the great one has spoken and you now know the truth!!
mark it on stone tablets to preserve for all time!!

[ELA]

Discussing the minutia, individual horses, what happened to them and the possible why, specifics about business models, protocols, proceedures -- or anything of the like, is an exercise in futility; basically because nobody is intimately familiar with these things. You can hypothesize, but that is based upon observations, and maybe commentary from principals or something of the like. You can formulate an opinion, however, again, that might be from afar or absent of facts, or it could be based upon limited knowledge. It certainly is not a qualified opinion.

So, there's an interesting article, obviously negative, but interesting. Also, there's another article. More positive, relatively speaking, but another article. We have all read a great deal about Darley/Godolphin/Shadwell/et al, and about Coolmore. They can both be fascinating reads. The business is what the business is, and economics are what is driving the business today.

Be that as it may, it is quite obvious that NoChanceToDance has an agenda. Whether it's an agenda, baggage, or an axe to grind, it doesn't matter -- the opinion -- and I stress opinion as opposed to fact -- is obviously not an objective one. Say what you like, but I think that is the only thing close to a fact that most people here would and could agree with.

Whether or not the ruling family of Dubai is good for the business or not, or whether or not Coolmore is good or bad for the breeding business, and all of those heated discussions -- they will all be debated time and time again.

Eric

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by ELA

Discussing the minutia, individual horses, what happened to them and the possible why, specifics about business models, protocols, proceedures -- or anything of the like, is an exercise in futility; basically because nobody is intimately familiar with these things. You can hypothesize, but that is based upon observations, and maybe commentary from principals or something of the like. You can formulate an opinion, however, again, that might be from afar or absent of facts, or it could be based upon limited knowledge. It certainly is not a qualified opinion.

So, there's an interesting article, obviously negative, but interesting. Also, there's another article. More positive, relatively speaking, but another article. We have all read a great deal about Darley/Godolphin/Shadwell/et al, and about Coolmore. They can both be fascinating reads. The business is what the business is, and economics are what is driving the business today.

Be that as it may, it is quite obvious that NoChanceToDance has an agenda. Whether it's an agenda, baggage, or an axe to grind, it doesn't matter -- the opinion -- and I stress opinion as opposed to fact -- is obviously not an objective one. Say what you like, but I think that is the only thing close to a fact that most people here would and could agree with.

Whether or not the ruling family of Dubai is good for the business or not, or whether or not Coolmore is good or bad for the breeding business, and all of those heated discussions -- they will all be debated time and time again.

Eric

A well written post.

From what i have been told from good friends who are employees and ex employees at Godolphin all i can gather from the article is that it is well informed in many areas.

These people would not lie to me, which is why i am calling it truth.

As you say, the debate will be continued time and time again. I don't like the way they buy the competition time after time when it isn't working for them. Buying success can work within reason, but not to the extent they are doing it. Especially when the horses they buy mid way through their racing career obviously don't adapt well to their training methods (well, that is the only reason i can suggest). Think of all of the good horses they have purchased that have since either been injured or seriously lost their form. Hinterland, Imperial Stride, Best name, Best Alibi, Vista Bella, Caradak, Court Masterpiece, Dijeerr, Kirklees, Palace Episode, The Geezer, Opera Cape, Mount Hadley, Short Skirt, Rallying Cry, Silca's Sister, Windsor Knot....... there are more. All of these have been purchased or transfered to Godolphin within the last few years, and you cannot say that all of these are down to bad luck.

Now compare that with horses they have paid huge amounts for that they have actually had success with over the past few years....... the only few i can think of are Daylami, Ramonti, Stage Gift and maybe include Utopia on that list but i've heard nothing about him since he won in the U.S (anyone know anything??).

Now, if that doesn't suggest something is wrong with their training techniques, i don't know what does.

Maybe it's Dubai, maybe horses cannot cope with shipping back and forth there every year for a few months?

There is something wrong somewhere, and i'm fed up of seeing these good horses disappearing off the face of the earth as soon as they come into the care of Godolphin.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

A well written post.

From what i have been told from good friends who are employees and ex employees at Godolphin all i can gather from the article is that it is well informed in many areas.

These people would not lie to me, which is why i am calling it truth.

As you say, the debate will be continued time and time again. I don't like the way they buy the competition time after time when it isn't working for them. Buying success can work within reason, but not to the extent they are doing it. Especially when the horses they buy mid way through their racing career obviously don't adapt well to their training methods (well, that is the only reason i can suggest). Think of all of the good horses they have purchased that have since either been injured or seriously lost their form. Hinterland, Imperial Stride, Best name, Best Alibi, Vista Bella, Caradak, Court Masterpiece, Dijeerr, Kirklees, Palace Episode, The Geezer, Opera Cape, Mount Hadley, Short Skirt, Rallying Cry, Silca's Sister, Windsor Knot....... there are more. All of these have been purchased or transfered to Godolphin within the last few years, and you cannot say that all of these are down to bad luck.

Now compare that with horses they have paid huge amounts for that they have actually had success with over the past few years....... the only few i can think of are Daylami, Ramonti, Stage Gift and maybe include Utopia on that list but i've heard nothing about him since he won in the U.S (anyone know anything??).

Now, if that doesn't suggest something is wrong with their training techniques, i don't know what does.

Maybe it's Dubai, maybe horses cannot cope with shipping back and forth there every year for a few months?

There is something wrong somewhere, and i'm fed up of seeing these good horses disappearing off the face of the earth as soon as they come into the care of Godolphin.

Common wisdom says no one man can change the world. In fact, that is the only way change occurs. I don't agree with you, but carry on!

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Common wisdom says no one man can change the world. In fact, that is the only way change occurs. I don't agree with you, but carry on!

What don't you agree with?

One more not agreeing with me is not going to change the world though

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

What don't you agree with?

One more not agreeing with me is not going to change the world though

I would not consider comments made by a friend about a former employer as objective.

Nor would my friends consider the same comments from me as objective.

The rest? Opinion. Good? Bad? I don't know.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

I would not consider comments made by a friend about a former employer as objective.

Nor would my friends consider the same comments from me as objective.

The rest? Opinion. Good? Bad? I don't know.

That is the problem, one of my friend's is a former employer, but the other two are current employees, and if anything, it is the former employee who is being the nicer in his words.

He did agree with the article having worked at the same level as Crisford etc. Their staff turnover is very high, something which i didn't realise.

I know their is a lot of unrest in the camp at the moment, and much of it is to do with the training techniques and who should be training the horses. There are certain people that have got in "far too deep", if they took more of a back seat role and got on with the jobs they are employed to do, i think the operation will start to role again. But why they think that they can buy the competition for success they will continue to fail.

As i have said, maybe now they have a few (what look to be) outstanding stallion prospects they will discontinue to 'scatter' buy at any cost, and start to put faith into their breeding operation. I hope that is the case, because they are killing racing over here by doing that, racing fans don't like it and they are getting frustrated (like me)

[my miss storm cat]

As an aside, since you mentioned Caradak he's doing well.

I don't need to comment on the rest.....

What you're doing now is posting the same thing over and over and merely changing the words around.

It seems you're looking for a fight and lording over this thread, demanding answers from anyone who would disagree.

Is it that hard to respect opinions other than your own?

This whole I-know-best-cause-my-friends-told-me mentality is getting old.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

As an aside, since you mentioned Caradak he's doing well.

I don't need to comment on the rest.....

What you're doing now is posting the same thing over and over and merely changing the words around.

It seems you're looking for a fight and lording over this thread, demanding answers from anyone who would disagree.

Is it that hard to respect opinions other than your own?

This whole I-know-best-cause-my-friends-told-me mentality is getting old.

I just hope ArlJim will be able to sleep.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

I just hope ArlJim will be able to sleep.

Sleep??? I think he's in a coma.....

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

As an aside, since you mentioned Caradak he's doing well.

I don't need to comment on the rest.....

What you're doing now is posting the same thing over and over and merely changing the words around.

It seems you're looking for a fight and lording over this thread, demanding answers from anyone who would disagree.

Is it that hard to respect opinions other than your own?

This whole I-know-best-cause-my-friends-told-me mentality is getting old.

You don't need to comment on the rest??? what do you know?

Caradak, he's been injured and he is just about to come back on track.

Not looking for a fight at all.

Well, you are all disagreeing with me but no evidence has been brought to the table.

I have said i am annoyed with Godolphin's tactics, i have listed horses they have purchased that have either been injured or lost their form. what does this suggest?

Well, i trust my friends and people "in the know", i'm not going to tell them "you speak crap" when they obviously know much more than us.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

You don't need to comment on the rest??? what do you know?

Caradak, he's been injured and he is just about to come back on track.

Not looking for a fight at all.

Well, you are all disagreeing with me but no evidence has been brought to the table.

I have said i am annoyed with Godolphin's tactics, i have listed horses they have purchased that have either been injured or lost their form. what does this suggest?

Well, i trust my friends and people "in the know", i'm not going to tell them "you speak crap" when they obviously know much more than us.

Evidence? Evidence of what exactly?

These are ALL opinions.

You think you have evidence because you posted an article?

This is turning into tales of the absurd now.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

Evidence? Evidence of what exactly?

These are ALL opinions.

You think you have evidence because you posted an article?

This is turning into tales of the absurd now.

No, not the article but the fact that most of the horses they buy turn out to be nags, but for what reason? They cannot train?

Okay, opinions, whatever, but they are opinions that add up. I cannot see how the information i am told by employees is opinion, though? They know what is going on, they know the horses. We don't.

I don't want to fight.

I'm very passionate about this, i have seen far too many good horses ruined by them (seemingly) and it is damaging racing over here. I know it is different in the States because as far as i know they are doing pretty well with the few horses in training over there. Although i'm getting fed up with asking how Zada Belle is and what is happening with Utopia?

You have to understand that.

[my miss storm cat]

On Utopia.....

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...ghlight=utopia

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

On Utopia.....

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...ghlight=utopia

Thanks for that.

He was so impressive in Dubai, he could be very special in America.