Workout injury ends Big Brown Cup hopes, career..

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I think her resume is at least comparable. She's beaten everyone she's faced with disdainful ease. I find it hard to knock her. The point I was trying to make was it's silly to say "it's a fact" that no one's had a better year than Big Brown.

Consider the source. But seriously the races that she won are relatively minor events compared to American classic races. BB's competition isnt very strong in comparison to previous years but Z isnt exactly beating up on Bayakoa and lady's Secret.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by philcski

Nobody's mentioning the fact that Zarkava was also retired today.

"Whilst no one will regret more than my management team and I not to see Zarkava race again, as she is such a supreme athlete, we have decided to retire her to the Aga Khan broodmare band, as she will be an invaluable asset to this essential part of our activity," the Aga Khan said in the announcement. "The quality and youth of our broodmare band is of the utmost importance to ensure we remain breeders of racehorses capable of performing at the top level."

I guess everyone figured it was a done deal. Of course Scavs would have you think the Aga Khan timed the announcement to disrupt the news of Curlins big between races work.

Are you now an employee of the British govt? Like James Bond?

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Do you consider the fact that some of the races are restricted? A race restricted to 3yo's is likely not as strong as a race open to all competition. Should 2yo grade ones be given the same weight as the BC Classic?

I don't know enough about thbis sport but I thought two year olds typically race a lot less than three year olds? Am I wrong on that assumption?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I guess everyone figured it was a done deal. Of course Scavs would have you think the Aga Khan timed the announcement to disrupt the news of Curlins big between races work.

Are you now an employee of the British govt? Like James Bond?

Just call me 00-screwed

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Consider the source. But seriously the races that she won are relatively minor events compared to American classic races. BB's competition isnt very strong in comparison to previous years but Z isnt exactly beating up on Bayakoa and lady's Secret.

Wait....I'm the source. For good or for bad, I am glad to be recognized the source of something

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Wait....I'm the source. For good or for bad, I am glad to be recognized the source of something

Congrats!

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

I don't know enough about thbis sport but I thought two year olds typically race a lot less than three year olds? Am I wrong on that assumption?

That assumption has nothing to do with your statement and that was that you can compare who had the better season by number of grade ones. By that logic, Vineyard Haven has had a better season than Commentator. And according to your logic, the BC Juvenile Fillies carries no more weight than the BC Classic since both are grade ones. All grade ones aren't created equal. Heatseeker won the grade two Californian, beating Tiago and Surf Cat with a 109 Beyer. Both of those horses are multiple graded stakes winners in open company. Are you seriously going to argue that Big Brown beating Coal Play and Cool Coal Man in the Haskell (106) or beating Macho Again and Ichabad Crane in the Preakness (100) or beating Smooth Air and Tomacito in the Florida Derby (106) mean more simply because they were grade ones? Seriously?

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

That assumption has nothing to do with your statement and that was that you can compare who had the better season by number of grade ones. By that logic, Vineyard Haven has had a better season than Commentator. And according to your logic, the BC Juvenile Fillies carries no more weight than the BC Classic since both are grade ones. All grade ones aren't created equal. Heatseeker won the grade two Californian, beating Tiago and Surf Cat with a 109 Beyer. Both of those horses are multiple graded stakes winners in open company. Are you seriously going to argue that Big Brown beating Coal Play and Cool Coal Man in the Haskell (106) or beating Macho Again and Ichabad Crane in the Preakness (100) or beating Smooth Air and Tomacito in the Florida Derby (106) mean more simply because they were grade ones? Seriously?

Seriously...I don't know. But all those horses you named is what was thrown at him and he beat them all. You left out Denis of Cork (not a bad horse), and Colonel John too (also very decent).

Off topic, I thought the FL Derby favorite was a horse named __________ Fields, but I cannot be for sure. Do you remember that horses name? It is driving me crazy.

[ELA]

I can't believe some of the comments I am reading, but I guess I shouldn't be shocked. Like either horse or not, here, in this forum, as fans -- we would have all liked to see Curlin and Big Brown (both fit, liking the track, healthy, etc.). So BB got hurt and won't race. Disappointed, pissed off, whatever. OK, I get that.

Conspiracy, accusations coming from timing of a few hours, pictures, grassy knowlls and magic bullets -- and more opportunities to criticize connections; sure, that really has credibility.

I still don't know whether or not Curlin is going, and I would think Jackson is going to rely on Team Asmussen, Richard Mandella, and whoever else he designates. I don't know. If he's good to go, I'd like to see him. If not, so be it. The BC days will be what they will be. I guess if you don't like them enough, dislike them, hate them, whatever, you don't have to play. Turn the page.

Eric

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Seriously...I don't know. But all those horses you named is what was thrown at him and he beat them all. You left out Denis of Cork (not a bad horse), and Colonel John too (also very decent).

Off topic, I thought the FL Derby favorite was a horse named __________ Fields, but I cannot be for sure. Do you remember that horses name? It is driving me crazy.

Elysium Fields, but I am pretty sure BB was the favorite.

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Elysium Fields, but I am pretty sure BB was the favorite.

That's it! Thanks! I just looked it up and I guess he was a 3-1 second favorite.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Seriously...I don't know. But all those horses you named is what was thrown at him and he beat them all. You left out Denis of Cork (not a bad horse), and Colonel John too (also very decent).

Off topic, I thought the FL Derby favorite was a horse named __________ Fields, but I cannot be for sure. Do you remember that horses name? It is driving me crazy.

I didn't leave them off. Big Brown has beaten a couple of decent horses in Colonel John and Eight Belles. I was only using those other three races as examples of how just because a race is a grade one doesn't mean it has a tough field or is automatically a better race than one with a lower grade.

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I didn't leave them off. Big Brown has beaten a couple of decent horses in Colonel John and Eight Belles. I was only using those other three races as examples of how just because a race is a grade one doesn't mean it has a tough field or is automatically a better race than one with a lower grade.

But not every horse qualifies for a Grade 1? Are there better races that aren't Grade 1? Of course. Are there faster horses in non Grade 1 races? Not proportionately.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

But not every horse qualifies for a Grade 1? Are there better races that aren't Grade 1? Of course. Are there faster horses in non Grade 1 races? Not proportionately.

So then you are sticking with he's had the best year because he's won the most grade ones. No matter the actual quality that was in those races.

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

So then you are sticking with he's had the best year because he's won the most grade ones. No matter the actual quality that was in those races.

Partially yes. Especially when they are of the prestige of FL Derby, KY Derby, Preakness, and Haskell. Now if those four were all titled the Monmouth Stakes, then no. That is not the only reason why he has had the best year of any horse in 2008 although it does speak volumes. Add to that in three of them, he blew away the field, and in two of them, he won from the outside post (KY Derby was even more amazing post 20).

[smuthg]

Originally Posted by Scav

As a side note to this, I would love to see a picture of his foot to confirm. The 'conspricy theorist'(?) in me thinks that Jackson called his bluff and now doesn't want to run against Curlin

Note the announcement on the same day as Curlin's scheduled mid-race workout....

There's a picture of a hoof on the DRF Home page, assuming its Big Brown's, it doesn't look good.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/99020.html

[Danzig]

too bad about his foot. also too bad that they won't bring him back at four since they can't make the classic this year.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Partially yes. Especially when they are of the prestige of FL Derby, KY Derby, Preakness, and Haskell. Now if those four were all titled the Monmouth Stakes, then no. That is not the only reason why he has had the best year of any horse in 2008 although it does speak volumes. Add to that in three of them, he blew away the field, and in two of them, he won from the outside post (KY Derby was even more amazing post 20).

So then you believe Stardom Bound and Vineyard Haven have both had better years than Commentator? If Stardom Bound wins the BC Juv Fillies and Zenyatta loses the Distaff, they've had an equal year because they've got the same number of grade ones? Or she's had a better one than Proud Spell and her two grade ones? Or Indian Blessing and her two grade ones? Hell, let's take it further. If Stardom Bound wins her third grade one in the BC, she will have had a better single season than Commentator has had a CAREER cause he's only won two grade ones in his career. She would be the equal of Medaglia d' Oro and his three grade one wins in his career. She'd pass Smarty Jones and his two. She'd equal Afleet Alex and his three. One more and she's had as good a career as Ghostzapper.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Partially yes. Especially when they are of the prestige of FL Derby, KY Derby, Preakness, and Haskell. Now if those four were all titled the Monmouth Stakes, then no. That is not the only reason why he has had the best year of any horse in 2008 although it does speak volumes. Add to that in three of them, he blew away the field, and in two of them, he won from the outside post (KY Derby was even more amazing post 20).

Give it up. It's not worth defending him, for one you won't win the argument and two there is no definitive answer.

Just so you know, for my money, Big Brown is HOY unless Curlin wins the BC or if Curlin doesn't, then Zenyatta has a chance to steal it with a dominating Distaff or even moreso with a Classic win.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by smuthg

There's a picture of a hoof on the DRF Home page, assuming its Big Brown's, it doesn't look good.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/99020.html

yeah, that is like ripping your toe nail off...No conspircy here