NBA Championship: Lakers Vs. Magic

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Turk is a 4? Maybe in fantasyland. Rashard Lewis is a nice 4, Turkoglu is not.

They kind of interchange because neither of them can guard a legit 4 but you are probably right that turk is more the 3. My mistake.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

He isnt nearly as athletic as mcgrady is/was. Mcgrady is a swing, Turk is a 4. Come one kg, you are slippin...at least turk and dirk play the same position.

That's like saying Ron Harper and John Stockton played the same position. Or Brian Shaw and Chris Paul. Come on. What position a guy is listed as is meaningless. Turkoglu does not play the post at all. At all. Nobody said he's as athletic as McGrady. But in looking at their roles on their respective teams, it is very similar. Both of them are the secondary ball handlers on their teams and can either be used to relieve pressure on the point guard or to initiate the offense themselves. Both create their own shot off of the dribble and don't need screens and picks to get open. Both are good outside shooters but not great. Both can get to the basket. Both rebound fairly well and play slight defense. Both can go to the boards and get it off and take it up the floor. Dirk can't do most of those things. He can shoot off the dribble on only two moves. One is the pull-up and the other is the reverse spin dribble. Both of those, he can only do against big guys. He has big time trouble trying to take advantage of smaller guys that he should have a size advantage over. Notice how Bowen and Stephen Jackson both gave him tons of trouble. Dirk excels when he's guarded by someone of similar size that he can take outside because he has a quickness advantage over most of them. Turkoglu has an advantage over any power forward and he can also do his thing against small forwards. Offensively, they are completely different.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

yes, a team can "luck" into three consecutive 7 game series victories. LOL

You are whining now. Its no great handicapping feat picking the lakers. But it has proven to be extemely foolish to pick against them. No?

On that we can agree at least. Every series has been far closer than the supposed experts thought. You've lucked out cause Denver and Orlando choked in all the big moments even worse that Kobe has.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Turk is a 4? Maybe in fantasyland. Rashard Lewis is a nice 4, Turkoglu is not.

I'd have to disagree with you here. Neither one of them is a real power forward. They are in essence both small forwards. Turkoglu has more of a post game than Lewis does and even he doesn't have much of one. Lewis can only go to the post if a guard is on him. Lewis' game is 95% perimeter.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I'd have to disagree with you here. Neither one of them is a real power forward. They are in essence both small forwards. Turkoglu has more of a post game than Lewis does and even he doesn't have much of one. Lewis can only go to the post if a guard is on him. Lewis' game is 95% perimeter.

I'm thinking more in the defensive sense. Both want to play on the perimiter on offense no doubt but which one would you want playing defense on the interior and grabbing rebounds. In that sense I think Lewis is superior.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

That's like saying Ron Harper and John Stockton played the same position. Or Brian Shaw and Chris Paul. Come on. What position a guy is listed as is meaningless. Turkoglu does not play the post at all. At all. Nobody said he's as athletic as McGrady. But in looking at their roles on their respective teams, it is very similar. Both of them are the secondary ball handlers on their teams and can either be used to relieve pressure on the point guard or to initiate the offense themselves. Both create their own shot off of the dribble and don't need screens and picks to get open. Both are good outside shooters but not great. Both can get to the basket. Both rebound fairly well and play slight defense. Both can go to the boards and get it off and take it up the floor. Dirk can't do most of those things. He can shoot off the dribble on only two moves. One is the pull-up and the other is the reverse spin dribble. Both of those, he can only do against big guys. He has big time trouble trying to take advantage of smaller guys that he should have a size advantage over. Notice how Bowen and Stephen Jackson both gave him tons of trouble. Dirk excels when he's guarded by someone of similar size that he can take outside because he has a quickness advantage over most of them. Turkoglu has an advantage over any power forward and he can also do his thing against small forwards. Offensively, they are completely different.

Dirk is almost always being guarded by a guy that is smalller than him. How many big guys guard him? They can't stay with him out there. He is 6 11.

Dirk can't start the break off of the rebound? Do you want me to pull up the youtube videos where he does?

Dirk can't get to the basket? He was 8th in the league in ft attempts.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

On that we can agree at least. Every series has been far closer than the supposed experts thought. You've lucked out cause Denver and Orlando choked in all the big moments even worse that Kobe has.

Teams don't "choke" in a seven game series. they win or they lose. Anything beyond that is a lame excuse. Big plays are part of every game whether they happen in the first quarter or the fourth. Over a seven game series they even out and the better team wins.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Teams don't "choke" in a seven game series. they win or they lose. Anything beyond that is a lame excuse. Big plays are part of every game whether they happen in the first quarter or the fourth. Over a seven game series they even out and the better team wins.

Teams "choke" when they are in a series that they are outmatched physically and are outmatched by the officials? Any series against the Lakers now implies the officials are against you which is very sad. Kobe choked multiple times this postseason and almost cost them games. But then the team they choked against choked even more afterwards.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Teams "choke" when they are in a series that they are outmatched physically and are outmatched by the officials? Any series against the Lakers now implies the officials are against you which is very sad. Kobe choked multiple times this postseason and almost cost them games. But then the team they choked against choked even more afterwards.

sigh. The lakers were called for 28 fouls and shot 20 free throws. Orlando was called for 21 fouls and shot 37 free throws.

If the officials were against orlando, it must have been one of those weird conspiracies where they agreed to put them at the line almost twice as much as the other team.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I'm thinking more in the defensive sense. Both want to play on the perimiter on offense no doubt but which one would you want playing defense on the interior and grabbing rebounds. In that sense I think Lewis is superior.

Out of the two, I'd probably take Lewis to put on a power forward. But it's basically the same. I don't think either of them can do it effectively. Lewis is a 6-10, 215 pound lightweight that has a career average of 5.8 boards with a high of 7.0 In nine seasons as a starter, he's been under 6.0 four times. It breaksdown as 1.6 offensive and 4.2 defensive. His career average is 0.6 blocks with a high of 0.9

It's a little bit harder to use Turkoglu's career stats because he's spent so much of his career as a reserve. But in the last four seasons as a starter, he's averaged 4.3, 4.0, 5.7, and 5.3 boards.

Here's how they compare the last two seasons starting with each other

2008
Lewis 46% (41% 3's) 18.2pt, 5.4reb, 2.4ast, 1.2stl, 0.5blk
Turk 46% (40%) 19.5pt, 5.7reb, 5.0ast, 0.9stl, 0.3blk

2009
Lewis 44% (40%) 17.7pt, 5.7reb, 2.6ast, 1.0stl, 0.6blk
Turk 41% (36%) 16.8pt, 5.3reb, 4.9ast, 0.8stl, 0.2blk

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

sigh. The lakers were called for 28 fouls and shot 20 free throws. Orlando was called for 21 fouls and shot 37 free throws.

If the officials were against orlando, it must have been one of those weird conspiracies where they agreed to put them at the line almost twice as much as the other team.

That's such a bad statistic and you know it. If one team is pulling up and shooting jumpers and the other is pounding the ball into Howard then you expect the team with the guy pounding inside to get some calls. That said, I'm not going to call out the officials in Game 4 since I only got back for the end of it. I did watch all of Game 3 though and that was one of the worst officiated games of all time.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

That's such a bad statistic and you know it. If one team is pulling up and shooting jumpers and the other is pounding the ball into Howard then you expect the team with the guy pounding inside to get some calls. That said, I'm not going to call out the officials in Game 4 since I only got back for the end of it. I did watch all of Game 3 though and that was one of the worst officiated games of all time.

The lakers shot 20 free throws the hole game. Thats including OT! and you are calling conspiracy.

I admit kobe gets calls like nobody outside of Lebron but he isnt getting so much love in the playoffs.

The officiating might be bad but it is bad both ways.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

The lakers shot 20 free throws the hole game. Thats including OT! and you are calling conspiracy.

I admit kobe gets calls like nobody outside of Lebron but he isnt getting so much love in the playoffs.

The officiating might be bad but it is bad both ways.

I admit I didn't watch most of it but did the first half occur underground? Did you watch Game 3 Fu, there was no doubt in that game about 10+ calls.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I admit I didn't watch most of it but did the first half occur underground? Did you watch Game 3 Fu, there was no doubt in that game about 10+ calls.

I watched it. The lakers were called for 25 fouls in that game while the magic got called for 21.

I just don't see how it has been called unfairly. Nothing stands out as blatantly bad. Game 2 Kobe got a couple of calls i think should have not been called but over all its been even.

In two games in orlando its 53-42 lakers in fouls against.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I watched it. The lakers were called for 25 fouls in that game while the magic got called for 21.

I just don't see how it has been called unfairly. Nothing stands out as blatantly bad. Game 2 Kobe got a couple of calls i think should have not been called but over all its been even.

In two games in orlando its 53-42 lakers in fouls against.

Even though Bill Simmons is a Celtics fan I don't know that he is completely unbiased in this series. But for the record here is his account which pretty much meshes exactly with my thoughts at the bar on Sunday:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...8&sportCat=nba

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Is that on the basis that the Magic are one layup and one free throw from being up 3-1?

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Both handle the ball well for men their size?

Turkeyglue is light years ahead of Dirk
off the dribble. It aint even close. When was the
last time you saw Dirk back the ball to midcourt in
a halfcourt set to get some distance between
himself and his defender?

Ball handling and the ability to go
to the basket off the dribble is a
huge diff. between these two.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Turkeyglue is light years ahead of Dirk
off the dribble. It aint even close. When was the
last time you saw Dirk back the ball to midcourt in
a halfcourt set to get some distance between
himself and his defender?

Ball handling and the ability to go
to the basket off the dribble is a
huge diff. between these two.

Dirk handles the ball very well and gets to the basket. he was 8th in free throw attempts.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Dirk handles the ball very well and gets to the basket. he was 8th in free throw attempts.

When Dirk receives the ball at the FT line and
closer. He is not a perimeter ball handler.
Turkeyglue is. They are very different in this
respect. Turkeyglue is much, much quicker.

Hedo is a legitimate penetrating big man.
(the women love this aspect of his game)

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by pgardn

When Dirk receives the ball at the FT line and
closer. He is not a perimeter ball handler.
Turkeyglue is. They are very different in this
respect. Turkeyglue is much, much quicker.

Hedo is a legitimate penetrating big man.
(the women love this aspect of his game)

Hedo isnt much, much quicker than anyone.

Dirk goes to the hole all the time. I dont know what you guys have been watching but if you want i can put up video.