Obama love

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

As any new president is and more so because he is black.
Or he says he is black. But overwhelming supportive of his
economic policies... no frggn way. The press is interviewing
numerous economists and bankers etc... that are all pointing
out what they think to be huge flaws. Almost everyday.

And its easy because Obama is moving at lightning speed.
Car companies, banks, carbon emission standards, so much
is taking place... its all over. Including criticism.

If you think the average Joe in the US is just fine okdokie
with all these new things being rushed through I dont think
you are reading the public or the press that I am reading.

They clearly are fawning over him and family personally.
But NOT his economic policies.

http://www.journalism.org/analysis_r...first_100_days

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://www.journalism.org/analysis_r...first_100_days

They are not counting the stories on Geithner, Summers, Orszag, Romer, Bernake... these are his men/women. Their ideas go through him. You dont think there has been any cricticism of these folks. Look em up.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So the Iran hostage situation wasnt a big deal? Did he not "get" Iran? C'mon tell me with a straight face that the rise of the mullahs in Iran hasnt been the single most destabilizing force in the region.

Geeshus. Are you guys for real?

What I said, was: Obama has a strong interest in, and understanding of, the myriad of complexities involving the various countries in the middle east. Tribal relations, power struggles, economics, historic, religious, etc. Carter had (and has) the same. Both "get it" - that it's an incredibly complicated, multi-layered area of the world.

If you insist upon arguing, argue against what I said. Don't change the subject to something else.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by pgardn

They are not counting the stories on Geithner, Summers, Orszag, Romer, Bernake... these are his men/women. Their ideas go through him. You dont think there has been any cricticism of these folks. Look em up.

Because when the right criticizes them the immediate response from the left is "show me where he said that." Doesn't count if not directly quoted by Obama ie even GOP Riot.

But on the other side Bush was responsible for everything and anyone that happened during his administration.

Meanwhile Carter thinks the Israeli treatment of Palestine is worse than Rawanda? Maybe he mispoke? LOL

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Because when the right criticizes them the immediate response from the left is "show me where he said that." Doesn't count if not directly quoted by Obama ie even GOP Riot.

Fact and opinion are not equal and the same, nor blindly interchangable.

If I say "The earth is flat", you have every right to challenge that assertion and ask me to post some empirical evidence that the earth is flat. Or you can post evidence that shows the earth is not flat.

However, posting another person's web blog, where that person says, "I think the earth is flat, too!" is not evidence that the earth is flat.

Try reading the other thread about "intellectual honesty" in discourse and debate.

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Because when the right criticizes them the immediate response from the left is "show me where he said that." Doesn't count if not directly quoted by Obama ie even GOP Riot.

But on the other side Bush was responsible for everything and anyone that happened during his administration.

Meanwhile Carter thinks the Israeli treatment of Palestine is worse than Rawanda? Maybe he mispoke? LOL

Rumsfeld and Cheney took tons of heat.
Maybe more than Bush. Bush was portrayed
as being led along by these guys. And the God
of the markets, Alan Greenspan, has admitted he
misjudged the market's ability to handle itself.

Carter has always had a problem with Israel.
I think Jimmy Carter has very good intentions
on most domestic issues. His getting involved with
habitat for humanity was essential in keeping a
non-governmental charity moving along helping people
obtain homes while careful scrutinizing for their ability to pay.

I just disagree with him on some foreign policy.

Look at what Carter did directly after his presidency
compared to what Reagan did. It tells you a little bit
about both men.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Fact and opinion are not equal and the same, nor blindly interchangable.

If I say "The earth is flat", you have every right to challenge that assertion and ask me to post some empirical evidence that the earth is flat. Or you can post evidence that shows the earth is not flat.

However, posting another person's web blog, where that person says, "I think the earth is flat, too!" is not evidence that the earth is flat.

Try reading the other thread about "intellectual honesty" in discourse and debate.

except Obama's long time minister, Obama's staff who claimed unemployment wouldn't surpass 8% etc. etc.

Now explain to me what Carter gets and why he thinks Isreal is the worse violators of human rights in the world. You must agree as you seemed to hug his book like a Right Wing Christian hugs his bible.

[Riot]

Now explain to me what Carter gets and why he thinks Isreal is the worse violators of human rights in the world. You must agree as you seemed to hug his book like a Right Wing Christian hugs his bible.

I explained "what Carter gets" in the previous post. Here it is again:

"Obama has a strong interest in, and understanding of, the myriad of complexities involving the various countries in the middle east. Tribal relations, power struggles, economics, historic, religious, etc. Carter had (and has) the same. Both "get it" - that it's an incredibly complicated, multi-layered area of the world."

Obama - with his family history, having an understanding of Muslim culture - that helps him "get" the middle east, too. His speech in Cairo was broadly hailed in the middle east as he showed his understanding of area idiosyncrasies. He is intelligent and articulate regarding general middle eastern area concepts, and the middle east even points it out.

Carter, through the years of his Presidency and since, also has a strong and complex understanding of middle eastern issues.

and why he thinks Isreal is the worse violators of human rights in the world. You must agree as you seemed to hug his book like a Right Wing Christian hugs his bible

You should probably stop assuming what other people think or agree to. Makes you look silly.

If you want to discuss the state of Isreal, and the best way to achieve middle eastern peace in it's various regions - go for it and open a different thread about it.

It has nothing to do with what I posted about Obama, and mentioned about Carter.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

You should probably stop assuming what other people think or agree to. Makes you look silly.

So he gets it but you don't agree with his view that Isreal is the worse violator of human rights in the world or you do? Very simple question. Your answer was a bit Sybil-like IMO

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

So he gets it but you don't agree with his view that Isreal is the worse violator of human rights in the world or you do? Very simple question. Your answer was a bit Sybil-like IMO

I don't care to get into a discussion regarding Isreal. That has nothing to do with what I posted originally about either Obama or Carter.

I categorize several US foreign statesmen as brilliant with a deep, obvious and/or exceptional understanding of particular countries, the local and locally international politics, their leaders, the personalities involved, and areas of foreign policy.

That doesn't mean I agree with all their foreign policy decisions, no, not at all.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

I don't care to get into a discussion regarding Isreal. That has nothing to do with what I posted originally about either Obama or Carter.

I categorize several US foreign statesmen as brilliant with a deep, obvious and/or exceptional understanding of particular countries, the local and locally international politics, their leaders, the personalities involved, and areas of foreign policy.

That doesn't mean I agree with all their foreign policy decisions, no, not at all.

Spoken in perfect Bill Clinton language. And it was a simple yes/no answer not meant to be a discussion.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Spoken in perfect Bill Clinton language. And it was a simple yes/no answer not meant to be a discussion.

Dell: I think Obamas' Cairo speech was terrific, well-received, showed a knowledge of the region, and moved the US back up in the eyes of the international stage.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Dell: I think Obamas' Cairo speech was terrific, well-received, showed a knowledge of the region, and moved the US back up in the eyes of the international stage.

Boy, that answers my Carter question perfectly.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Boy, that answers my Carter question perfectly.

Yes, I don't want to buy into the distraction of pulling off onto another topic.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, I don't want to buy into the distraction of pulling off onto another topic.

You were the one who brought up Carter. As a person who gets it and when I try to point out what actually he 'gets' you want to consider it another topic. If you're comparing Obama's foreign policy finesse to Carter I think the beliefs Carter 'spewed' during that interview are very relative, scary and dangerous.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

You were the one who brought up Carter. As a person who gets it and when I try to point out what actually he 'gets' you want to consider it another topic. If you're comparing Obama's foreign policy finesse to Carter I think the beliefs Carter 'spewed' during that interview are very relative, scary and dangerous.

Yes, I brought up Carter, and in the original post I said why, and above I repeated why (twice) and it has nothing to do with what you are talking about.

No, I'm obviously not comparing Obama's foreign policy finesse to Carter. No, I'm not talking about Carter's beliefs.

You go right ahead

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

What I said, was: Obama has a strong interest in, and understanding of, the myriad of complexities involving the various countries in the middle east. Tribal relations, power struggles, economics, historic, religious, etc. Carter had (and has) the same. Both "get it" - that it's an incredibly complicated, multi-layered area of the world.

If you insist upon arguing, argue against what I said. Don't change the subject to something else.

This is the most ridiculous post yet. How do you know what these people know? Because obama is a muslim he is well versed in Middle eastern tribal disputes? On Carter's watch radical Islam came to power in the Middle East. This is so stupid that I cant even believe that you wrote it. So Obama and Carter are smarter than everyone else when it comes to the Middle East? What exactly has Obama done except give a speech that the majority of which was most likely written by someone else? He can quote the "Holy"Koran. Big deal. Lets see how well he fixes all the issues over there especially when Israel bombs the **** out of Iran.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, I brought up Carter, and in the original post I said why, and above I repeated why (twice) and it has nothing to do with what you are talking about.

You said and I quote ""Obama has a strong interest in, and understanding of, the myriad of complexities involving the various countries in the middle east. Tribal relations, power struggles, economics, historic, religious, etc. Carter had (and has) the same. Both "get it"

I then pointed out what Carter 'gets' as you would say and I quoted his interview on hardball,

"CARTER: So the persecution of the Palestinians now, under the occupying territories—under the occupation forces—is one of the worst examples of human rights deprivation that I know. And I think it‘s—

SHUSTER: Even worse, though, than a place like Rwanda?

CARTER: Yes. I think—yes. You mean, now?

SHUSTER: Yes.

CARTER: Yes.

SHUSTER: The oppression now of the Israelis—of the Palestinians by the Israelis is worse than the situation in Africa like the oppression of Rwanda and the civil war?

CARTER: I‘m not going back into ancient history about Rwanda, but right now, the persecution of the Palestinians is one of the worst examples of human rights abuse I know, because the Palestinians—

SHUSTER: You‘re talking about right now, you‘re not talking about say, a few years ago.

CARTER: I‘m not talking about ancient history, no.

SHUSTER: Rwanda wasn‘t ancient history; it was just a few years ago.

CARTER: You can talk about Rwanda if you want to. I want to talk

about Palestine. What is being done to the Palestinians now is horrendous

in their own territory, by the occupying powers, which is Israel."

See how it fits together now? I'm not talking about what you may perceive or hope Carter's view on Isreal is or was after reading his books. I'm repeating what Carter said his view was and simply asking whether you agree?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Dell: I think Obamas' Cairo speech was terrific, well-received, showed a knowledge of the region, and moved the US back up in the eyes of the international stage.

So the Chinese and Russians and British and Italians and greeks and Indians and canadians and mexicans and Brazilians and Japanese and Dutch and Polish and Germans and other non muslim countries were all so impressed with Obama's speech they have moved us up the the World BCS rankings?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Look at what Carter did directly after his presidency
compared to what Reagan did. It tells you a little bit
about both men.

Reagan was 80 years old!!! What did you want him to do?
What exactly has Carter done? Anything positive still cant make up for the disastrous years he spent in office