Rampillion!!!!!!

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by gales0678

freddy - what about yonkers, tell me that slots are not helping there and that they aren't going to help in the future

yonkers is now the most profitable casino in the state of ny

it's working freddymo , it's working

It always works in the beginning.. AC used to be crowed in the beginning you waited in back of people to get at a table. Foxwoods was incredibly business..then the river boat etc etc. they all get less and less successful with time or a better way to explain it as the population that they draw from gets wiped out the numbers go down, especially as more and more competition comes into the arena. Meadowlands is a ghost town now used to be the mecca of Standard bred racing why..Chester Pa Dover De Yonkers NY.. I am not suggesting Meadowlands needs slots just saying the sport moved to the money. When the money stops flowing whats the plan going to be then? Or do we just keep following the new slot populations.. I guess Utah will be the last stop in 2027.lol

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by freddymo

It always works in the beginning.. AC used to be crowed in the beginning you waited in back of people to get at a table. Foxwoods was incredibly business..then the river boat etc etc. they all get less and less successful with time or a better way to explain it as the population that they draw from gets wiped out the numbers go down, especially as more and more competition comes into the arena. Meadowlands is a ghost town now used to be the mecca of Standard bred racing why..Chester Pa Dover De Yonkers NY.. I am not suggesting Meadowlands needs slots just saying the sport moved to the money. When the money stops flowing whats the plan going to be then? Or do we just keep following the new slot populations.. I guess Utah will be the last stop in 2027.lol

you points are well taken , from my standpoint though , what looked like a facility that was going to go under has seen a dramatic turnaround.

granted all the folks are not in love with the new slots players that are now in town hanging around , but, the metro area has a population that can keep them coming in for years to come in my opinion. the size of the faciltiy will eventually allow them to add a hotel and more restaurants, perhap card games will be coming next.

there is no question that AC is hurting , the fringe/marginal player is not going there when yonkers is right in their backyard.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by gales0678

you points are well taken , from my standpoint though , what looked like a facility that was going to go under has seen a dramatic turnaround.

granted all the folks are not in love with the new slots players that are now in town hanging around , but, the metro area has a population that can keep them coming in for years to come in my opinion. the size of the faciltiy will eventually allow them to add a hotel and more restaurants, perhap card games will be coming next.

there is no question that AC is hurting , the fringe/marginal player is not going there when yonkers is right in their backyard.

So when Aqueduct gets slots or VLT's Yonkers isn't going to be hurt? After Aqueduct it will be Monmouth or some casino in Long Island or maybe a bigger Casino at Monticello. Yonkers will build a bunch of crap to accomodate the slot folks and by then there will be more slots and that stuff will turn to crap along with horses

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by freddymo

So when Aqueduct gets slots or VLT's Yonkers isn't going to be hurt? After Aqueduct it will be Monmouth or some casino in Long Island or maybe a bigger Casino at Monticello. Yonkers will build a bunch of crap to accomodate the slot folks and by then there will be more slots and that stuff will turn to crap along with horses

i hear your arguement , but , the rooney must have a grand plan for all of it , they are smart business people and have been for a long time

that being said , the majority of the yonkers slots players are coming from the bronx and westchester...i don't think that there is a high % of the people coming in from LI , queens, brooklyn or manhattan

i think that NYRA can usr the big a or belmont and draw from people in queens ctny , king's ctny and nassau ctny without taking people away from yonkers

to be be fair on your points a lot of waht you say is correct , a lot of the other venues across the country simply don't have 10mm potential customers within 40 miles that yonkers and nyra have

a case in point , last oct i was at a wedding up in monticello , we went to the track the night before and it was a semi -ghost town , now granted the horses were not runnig that night , but , it was one of the most empty casinos i have ever been in .....that part of NY doesn't have 10mm people within 40 miles an it showed

[cabvmd]

Not all horses are world beaters. When horses race in company were they belong, who cares how fast they go? SPEED KILLS! When they are evenly matched and there are three or four horses close together at the finish to make for the excitement of competition, that is what makes for the fun of the sport.

As an examining veterinarian with 23 years experience on the race track ON BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE MIND YOU, as a practicing attending veterinarian and a state veterinarian, slower horses are the most sound, they do not go beyond their body's capacity and they LAST...... filling the race cards on the weekly basis.

I have adopted an old retired horse that raced until he was 10 years old and made 80 starts and $215,000. Broke his maiden at first asking and ran through his allowances and minor stakes. When he was slowed down by a bowed tendon and was in claiming races, he was claimed 6 or 7 times, twice by Derek Ryan. He made money for every one that had him. He took care of himself and is sound. He finished in the money >30% of his starts. with exacta and trifecta betting he was earning his keep and money for the track.

It is the HORSE that is the key to the whole thing. We need to promote the horse as an individual. I am a board member of RUBEA (Rutgers University Board of Equine Advancement) We have a very good Equine Science Center that is doing cutting edge research at the Agricultural Experiment Station on the Cook Campus of the university. The center uses its resources to promote the horse, then the horse industry. Healthy horses make for a strong industry.

When I used to get the Blood Horse years ago and all the volumes filled boxes in my attic, I decide to clean out. I only saved 2 issues, the one that recorded the passing of Secretariat and the one with the cover "Will Simulcasting Save Racing" the author was of the opinion, NO it will not. It helped for a while, but it hurt small local tracks. When the Breeders Cup came along, I was working for Drs Allen and Reed, both with decades of work on the race track. They were not of the opinion that he BC was the savior either. Slots will help initially, but there are ways to make racing "special" again. Treat the people that come to the track with more respect and courtesy, team work with track management and horsemen to promote interest in individual HORSES even if they are not "world beaters".


I started getting the Blood Horse again and I read the breeding and health news the most. We need durable horses and use proper nutrition and training to keep horses around longer. Do not worry, there will always be super stars that come along and be great, no matter who is training them. Great horses and people many times come from ordinary parents.

Cathy Ann Ball, VMD, MS

[phystech]

Freddy, everything has to start somewhere and it usually takes one person to start things.

With that in mind, I think you ought to put your foot down and not run your horses for purses supported by slots money. You have a very valid point about the horses at Delpark on Tues - even though I think you picked the wrong thread to voice your opinion - but to rail against those horses, and then turn around and to do the same thing with your horse would make you...... oh, what's the word I'm looking for.......um,..... a hypocrite!!!!

Start the movement Freddy!! Set the example!! Don't run that $6k pig you've got in the barn for slots-fueled purse money. Show the tracks you simply won't stoop to the level of cashing the winner's share of a $44k purse. Be the one that stands up for what you think is right and find that $8k purse that's unsupported by slots money. A real man acts - a weak one follows the flock.

I know you'll do what is right!!!!

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by phystech

Freddy, everything has to start somewhere and it usually takes one person to start things.

With that in mind, I think you ought to put your foot down and not run your horses for purses supported by slots money. You have a very valid point about the horses at Delpark on Tues - even though I think you picked the wrong thread to voice your opinion - but to rail against those horses, and then turn around and to do the same thing with your horse would make you...... oh, what's the word I'm looking for.......um,..... a hypocrite!!!!

Start the movement Freddy!! Set the example!! Don't run that $6k pig you've got in the barn for slots-fueled purse money. Show the tracks you simply won't stoop to the level of cashing the winner's share of a $44k purse. Be the one that stands up for what you think is right and find that $8k purse that's unsupported by slots money. A real man acts - a weak one follows the flock.

I know you'll do what is right!!!!

I have no problem racing the filly at PID. Never repped I wouldn't or that I wouldn't cash the check the minute it was given to me(can't wait for that slot money). As for being a hypocrite I guess you can choose to call me one. I never had issue with the exploitation of the money, what sane person wouldn't grab low hanging fruit. I had issue with the advent of racing electing to covet slots vs. consolidation and a more comprehensive long term plan. Trust me in a few years will have to go to another NEW SLOT location as PID will be a ghost town for people and horses..

Of course I made good points about what is wrong with racing. And again I never had issue with "the pill" running at Delaware and was most happy she won in such fine form. I never was disrespectfully to the stable or there decision to run or more importantly the fine effort "the pill" gave of herself.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by cabvmd

Not all horses are world beaters. When horses race in company were they belong, who cares how fast they go? SPEED KILLS! When they are evenly matched and there are three or four horses close together at the finish to make for the excitement of competition, that is what makes for the fun of the sport.

As an examining veterinarian with 23 years experience on the race track ON BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE MIND YOU, as a practicing attending veterinarian and a state veterinarian, slower horses are the most sound, they do not go beyond their body's capacity and they LAST...... filling the race cards on the weekly basis.

I have adopted an old retired horse that raced until he was 10 years old and made 80 starts and $215,000. Broke his maiden at first asking and ran through his allowances and minor stakes. When he was slowed down by a bowed tendon and was in claiming races, he was claimed 6 or 7 times, twice by Derek Ryan. He made money for every one that had him. He took care of himself and is sound. He finished in the money >30% of his starts. with exacta and trifecta betting he was earning his keep and money for the track.

It is the HORSE that is the key to the whole thing. We need to promote the horse as an individual. I am a board member of RUBEA (Rutgers University Board of Equine Advancement) We have a very good Equine Science Center that is doing cutting edge research at the Agricultural Experiment Station on the Cook Campus of the university. The center uses its resources to promote the horse, then the horse industry. Healthy horses make for a strong industry.

When I used to get the Blood Horse years ago and all the volumes filled boxes in my attic, I decide to clean out. I only saved 2 issues, the one that recorded the passing of Secretariat and the one with the cover "Will Simulcasting Save Racing" the author was of the opinion, NO it will not. It helped for a while, but it hurt small local tracks. When the Breeders Cup came along, I was working for Drs Allen and Reed, both with decades of work on the race track. They were not of the opinion that he BC was the savior either. Slots will help initially, but there are ways to make racing "special" again. Treat the people that come to the track with more respect and courtesy, team work with track management and horsemen to promote interest in individual HORSES even if they are not "world beaters".


I started getting the Blood Horse again and I read the breeding and health news the most. We need durable horses and use proper nutrition and training to keep horses around longer. Do not worry, there will always be super stars that come along and be great, no matter who is training them. Great horses and people many times come from ordinary parents.

Cathy Ann Ball, VMD, MS

Dr. Ball respectfully is there anything less entertaining then Arabian races, perhaps Byk interviewing Serling?

PS Can you hook me up with some EPO, Clenbutrol,and whatever else is hot on the horse market for my FTS in a week or two? Just kidding lol

[cabvmd]

Now Freddy,

Even the fastest arabian does not look like a TB when running. When TBs all are running together in a pack (ie horses of equal talent being rated by the riders) you are not able to decern how fast they are going. The track post the split times, then you know how fast they are going.

I have watched maybe 10,000 races and when the horses are together all trying for position, that is the fun part to watch. When there are a couple of horses close together comming to the finish and everyone is yelling for their horse, to me time kind of speeds up with the excitment factor. It is all in someones perception I suppose.

That is my enjoyment of the game. Almost all of the races I have ever watched I have not wagered on because as an offical, I am not allowed. The enjoyment of competition is the same whether or not I have a wager going.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by cabvmd

Now Freddy,

Even the fastest arabian does not look like a TB when running. When TBs all are running together in a pack (ie horses of equal talent being rated by the riders) you are not able to decern how fast they are going. The track post the split times, then you know how fast they are going.

I have watched maybe 10,000 races and when the horses are together all trying for position, that is the fun part to watch. When there are a couple of horses close together comming to the finish and everyone is yelling for their horse, to me time kind of speeds up with the excitment factor. It is all in someones perception I suppose.

That is my enjoyment of the game. Almost all of the races I have ever watched I have not wagered on because as an offical, I am not allowed. The enjoyment of competition is the same whether or not I have a wager going.

Go check out the field "the pill" trashed at Delaware Park the other day...I am guessing the 7 horse and the 9 from the race are either deceased, I am still not sure they were actually alive when they loaded in the gate but I will take the vets word for it, or they now live in Lancaster county pulling a plow (slowly). If the prospect of those two in a match race doesn't get your heart pounding nothing will.. I suspect neither is capable of running 6f's in 1.16ish

On a serious note I completely get your point and agree even the slowest hags can be entertaining for a 1/16th of a mile I guess

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Go check out the field "the pill" trashed at Delaware Park the other day...I am guessing the 7 horse and the 9 from the race are either deceased, I am still not sure they were actually alive when they loaded in the gate but I will take the vets word for it, or they now live in Lancaster county pulling a plow (slowly). If the prospect of those two in a match race doesn't get your heart pounding nothing will.. I suspect neither is capable of running 6f's in 1.16ish

On a serious note I completely get your point and agree even the slowest hags can be entertaining for a 1/16th of a mile I guess

Bro...give it a break. Your act is getting tired. We get it, you don't have any slow horses...you have a barn full of horses who can run a hole through the wind.

[phystech]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I had issue with the advent of racing electing to covet slots vs. consolidation and a more comprehensive long term plan. Trust me in a few years will have to go to another NEW SLOT location as PID will be a ghost town for people and horses..

Ah, but see, you are part of the problem Freddy. You are going to support a track that you criticize for coveting slots when you run your horse there. You give them reason to race because they can suck you in to run in their races and support their product. I just can't believe that someone who is so outspoken about the current business model some of these racinos are employing would turn around and support them by racing your horse there.

Your horse needs to run at River Downs. Support a track that probably NEEDS your horse to make a race go so that they can card enough races to give them a chance to earn the money they need to fund purses and survive.

[pointman]

Freddy, I just don't get your arguments, but before I get there, your spelling is absolutely killing me!

Quiet is not quite. There refers to a a place or a point in action or time, we are going to be there. Their refers to a person in the possessive, their rights. They're refers to a contraction of the words they are, they're going to be at the party.

Casinos and gambling is spreading because of the Indians and their federal rights since the US has sh*t on them for a long period of time. States are more open to the idea of casinos since their presence has been forced upon them. Casinos are immensely profitable (except if they are run by Donald Trump, the only known bookie to lose money) and due to the immense profits they make, States have no problem taking a cut and using the money elsewhere. Since Casinos are cutting into the action and customers that racetracks used to have exclusively locally, gambling, a concession to the racetracks is that the Casinos provide money to them for taking a cut of their action.

Fields are not small because there are too many tracks, but because of the tracks loss in the cut of the action, people are not owning, breeding and racing as many horses because the purses have gone down and don't make it worthwhile. Increased purses mean increased incentive to breed, own and run horses which will increase fields and jobs in the long run. It seems pretty simple to me.

There will be no casino at Monmouth or any New Jersey racetrack anytime soon due to the Casino lobby, headed by Trump, who pour money into trying everything they can to prevent competition. In fact, the AC lobby was so strong that they prevented passage of Casinos at NY tracks by filling the pockets of NY Politicians for years until Indian Casinos began popping up in New York and Connecticut which ultimately hurt the racetracks and began to place the NY tracks in peril.

I fail to see how tearing down racetracks, taking away people's livelihoods and making more urban areas even more urban while developers get rich helps the community. It generally does nothing more than bring more traffic to areas that already have too much traffic and additional commerical space which often isn't even needed. You keep saying the sport needs other solutions, but I don't see any viable ones that you have proposed.

Does it really matter whether horses in a race are fast or slow? Sure we all love the fastest horses, horses come slow, medium, fast and very fast. Does it matter if a race is $7,500 claimers or a $75,000 stake if there is a field of horses that are competitive to each other whether they're fast or slow? Or does it just matter if the field is relatively competitive giving a puzzle that you can solve and make a good score at a price? And competitive so owners can race their horses for decent purses and make enough money to justify ownership, trainers and grooms can make enough money to make a living. Some of my best hits have been in races that apparently you think shouldn't even exist.

Not every racetrack can run top horses, hey, there is a minor league in baseball you know, should they start tearing down those stadiums because they only draw 1,000 fans and clear the way for housing, commericial space and parks?

Now I have to get back to work, only an hour left!

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by pointman

Freddy, I just don't get your arguments, but before I get there, your spelling is absolutely killing me!

Quiet is not quite. There refers to a a place or a point in action or time, we are going to be there. Their refers to a person in the possessive, their rights. They're refers to a contraction of the words they are, they're going to be at the party.

Casinos and gambling is spreading because of the Indians and their federal rights since the US has sh*t on them for a long period of time. States are more open to the idea of casinos since their presence has been forced upon them. Casinos are immensely profitable (except if they are run by Donald Trump, the only known bookie to lose money) and due to the immense profits they make, States have no problem taking a cut and using the money elsewhere. Since Casinos are cutting into the action and customers that racetracks used to have exclusively locally, gambling, a concession to the racetracks is that the Casinos provide money to them for taking a cut of their action.

Fields are not small because there are too many tracks, but because of the tracks loss in the cut of the action, people are not owning, breeding and racing as many horses because the purses have gone down and don't make it worthwhile. Increased purses mean increased incentive to breed, own and run horses which will increase fields and jobs in the long run. It seems pretty simple to me.

There will be no casino at Monmouth or any New Jersey racetrack anytime soon due to the Casino lobby, headed by Trump, who pour money into trying everything they can to prevent competition. In fact, the AC lobby was so strong that they prevented passage of Casinos at NY tracks by filling the pockets of NY Politicians for years until Indian Casinos began popping up in New York and Connecticut which ultimately hurt the racetracks and began to place the NY tracks in peril.

I fail to see how tearing down racetracks, taking away people's livelihoods and making more urban areas even more urban while developers get rich helps the community. It generally does nothing more than bring more traffic to areas that already have too much traffic and additional commerical space which often isn't even needed. You keep saying the sport needs other solutions, but I don't see any viable ones that you have proposed.

Does it really matter whether horses in a race are fast or slow? Sure we all love the fastest horses, horses come slow, medium, fast and very fast. Does it matter if a race is $7,500 claimers or a $75,000 stake if there is a field of horses that are competitive to each other whether they're fast or slow? Or does it just matter if the field is relatively competitive giving a puzzle that you can solve and make a good score at a price? And competitive so owners can race their horses for decent purses and make enough money to justify ownership, trainers and grooms can make enough money to make a living. Some of my best hits have been in races that apparently you think shouldn't even exist.

Not every racetrack can run top horses, hey, there is a minor league in baseball you know, should they start tearing down those stadiums because they only draw 1,000 fans and clear the way for housing, commericial space and parks?

Now I have to get back to work, only an hour left!

I can't spell have diction issues and am basically illiterate. sorry

If a business can not thrive without subsides and isn' vital (farming) why expand it. Why not consolidate it?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by phystech

Ah, but see, you are part of the problem Freddy. You are going to support a track that you criticize for coveting slots when you run your horse there. You give them reason to race because they can suck you in to run in their races and support their product. I just can't believe that someone who is so outspoken about the current business model some of these racinos are employing would turn around and support them by racing your horse there.

Your horse needs to run at River Downs. Support a track that probably NEEDS your horse to make a race go so that they can card enough races to give them a chance to earn the money they need to fund purses and survive.

Everything you say is fair..I hope I never have to race at River Downs. I think racing there and taking full advantage of the insanity doesn't mitigate that slots aren't the answer and shouldn't be looked at as the foundation that racing needs to grow upon. I am hoping to steal as much money as I can with a filly or two that simply will be rewarded for there birth place and not their ability.. Plus Handle the important variant in racing will not be advanced in anyway shape or form from PID, especially considering the purse involved.

[phystech]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Everything you say is fair..I hope I never have to race at River Downs. I think racing there and taking full advantage of the insanity doesn't mitigate that slots aren't the answer and shouldn't be looked at as the foundation that racing needs to grow upon. I am hoping to steal as much money as I can with a filly or two that simply will be rewarded for there birth place and not their ability.. Plus Handle the important variant in racing will not be advanced in anyway shape or form from PID, especially considering the purse involved.

For me, and I'm a Mid-Atlantic guy, the whole thing started with Delpark and Charles Town getting slots. It wasn't as much a racing thing as it was a state racetrack thing. MD was kicking Delpark's and CT's ass. Those two tracks couldn't compete and were virtually on death's door. If not for their state's legislators deciding that racing, breeding, etc were important enough to their state economy, racing would not exist at Delpark and CT.

But when their gov't became involved, it unleveled the playing field. We, in MD, lost horsemen, horses and jocks (Dominguez, Pino, etc) to Delpark and others to CT.

As things worsened in MD, I began relying on the insane purses at CT and Delpark to keep my partnerships solvent. Was the business model CT employed where I could run my $5k claimer for $23k purse a wonderful thing? No, it was stupid. But 2 wins at CT in the summer made enough money for my group to ensure that we could survive the rest of the year.

We had the opportunity to vote for/against slots in MD this past Nov. Understand that as much as I hate slots, the fact was that in order to compete, MD has to have the same business tools that CT and Delpark, and now Philly/PennNat have. And, currently, KY needs the same as Indiana has. While it seems pretty pathetic to even mention Indiana racing in the same breath as KY racing, the reality is KY needs to level the playing field that slots will allow.

In a perfect racing world, slots would not be part of any track's equation. The upset of the apple cart, in the Mid-Atlantic, was when the lesser tracks received the golden goose of slots.

It appears to me that, in your racing Utopia, there'd only be stakes races. But the reality is no one wants to run two races a day, twice a week. As the good Dr. pointed out, without the benefit of a timer or designation of a class level, most of us wouldn't know the difference between 4 horses in a
$5k claimer spread across the track at the wire running 6f in 1:13 vs. 4 spread running in a Grade II going 6f in 1:09. It's all about the competition no matter the level and whether you've got the horse to win at that level.

[blackthroatedwind]

Freddy is apparently an idiotic savant......and this may be the one thing he gets.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I can't spell have diction issues and am basically illiterate. sorry

If a business can not thrive without subsides and isn' vital (farming) why expand it. Why not consolidate it?

You obviously had spell check on your presses.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I can't spell have diction issues and am basically illiterate. sorry

If a business can not thrive without subsides and isn' vital (farming) why expand it. Why not consolidate it?

Start with the Breeders and go from the bottom up...How can you expect the last bastions to consolidate when there are 35,000 freaking yearlings born, bought and unfortunately raced every year? You know 90% of the "connections" of these crappy horses are grinding it out so if the horses are supplied/bred for/to them, why shouldn't they have a place to run? Ironically, I agree in principal with most of what you say, but think you are attacking the wrong end.

[chucklestheclown]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Start with the Breeders and go from the bottom up...How can you expect the last bastions to consolidate when there are 35,000 freaking yearlings born, bought and unfortunately raced every year? You know 90% of the "connections" of these crappy horses are grinding it out so if the horses are supplied/bred for/to them, why shouldn't they have a place to run? Ironically, I agree in principal with most of what you say, but think you are attacking the wrong end.

There is enough blame and nit-picking to go around. Though I guess most of it starts at the "top"; without Lane's End and the other "stables" pushing their stallions every 2 minutes to breed more "product" people would have less of an urge to get into breeding losing horses.