The sad cost of war

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

and illegals.

I love the situation OB & Co. find themselves in right now. If this mess gets passed he, Reid and Pelosi will be blamed for every health care complaint in the future whether rightfully or not. If it doesn't pass well then he failed. The hypocrisy of thinking anyone opposing this is a shill, Nazi etc. and then trying to suppress free speech and assembly by having citizens report on each other and using bullies at town meetings has been especially enjoyable.

You really need to get a grip on what's really happening out there, and not what Glenn Beck is screeching about.

There is no "citizens reporting on each other".

The only bullies at town halls are the rowdy people yelling and taking over the town hall and preventing everyone else from talking. They are the ones suppressing free speech.

The only people using the words "Nazi" appears to be some members of the ultra-right, slinging that one at Obama (which is absurd beyond belief, as there is nothing more "far right wingnut" than a white supremacist)

Nobody is calling the bullies Nazi, as you contend. Nobody is calling anybody opposing healthcare Nazi's.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Understand the issues and we can discuss them. If you cant understand the negative impact on small business (really small businesses, $500k/25 employees not $50 million dollar revenue small businesses) then there is no need to further discuss with you. Build a campfire and sing kumbaya.

If you can't understand that providing health care for the minority of Americans that are uninsured will help the economy - oh, yes, those big insurance companies, too, and hospitals, and thousands and thousands of "small business" doctors and health care providers (laboratories, radiology, pharmacy, etc) - aside from helping real live people, I can't help you.

If a certain provision passes (and it may not, and I assume this is what you are worried about) what it says is the only small businesses that would have to provide health care (if they do not now) would be those that have a payroll of over $250K/year. And, they can get very cheap health care for their employees if this passes, at far less than 8% of their payroll.

And additionally, having other, less expensive options - provider choices - available for purchasing healthcare only helps all small businessess by cutting their costs.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

While this doesnt meet the standard set by Dala it does pose some interesting questions

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...are-estimates/

While using quite a few incorrect assumptions.

Seriously: I think some of you guys need to contact Mitch McConnell, and demand that the government stop all socialist, taxpayer-funded healthcare, and work to immediately rescind Medicare and Medicaid. Leave the veterans alone.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

japan attempted the stimulus way out of their recession a few years back-it didn't work. that was one of the things mentioned when d.c. started ramping up talks about one here. wise is he who learns from others' mistakes. but i guess we're not that wise.

But so far it appears to be working just fine.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

But so far it appears to be working just fine.

our stimulus and recovery is just fine?! really?!?! i read today that if you include people working part-time who used to work full time, and people who have given up on finding a job into the unemployment figures, that we're at almost 17% unemployment. yeah, it sounds just peachy to me. but i guess i should listen to barack more, and the naysayers less....

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

You really need to get a grip on what's really happening out there, and not what Glenn Beck is screeching about.

There is no "citizens reporting on each other".

The only bullies at town halls are the rowdy people yelling and taking over the town hall and preventing everyone else from talking. They are the ones suppressing free speech.

The only people using the words "Nazi" appears to be some members of the ultra-right, slinging that one at Obama (which is absurd beyond belief, as there is nothing more "far right wingnut" than a white supremacist)

Nobody is calling the bullies Nazi, as you contend. Nobody is calling anybody opposing healthcare Nazi's.

i read earlier today that gore has likened the battle against global warming and those who don't believe that humans cause said warming to fighting the nazis in ww2. i guess he thinks he's the modern day winston churchill.

[timmgirvan]

Riot: I don't think you have the faintest idea of what's going on out there!

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Riot: I don't think you have the faintest idea of what's going on out there!

She does, you just don't agree with it. next

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Danzig

our stimulus and recovery is just fine?! really?!?! i read today that if you include people working part-time who used to work full time, and people who have given up on finding a job into the unemployment figures, that we're at almost 17% unemployment. yeah, it sounds just peachy to me. but i guess i should listen to barack more, and the naysayers less....

So...Obama is to blame for this? As I always ask anyone who is blaming Obama...please..what would you be doing differently? Details Deb, AJ, Cannon, Dell...Nothing? No Stimulus? No bailouts? No cash for clunkers?

Wait..I know...tax cuts....strip all funded programs, let the rich pay less and hope that Reagan's pipe dream actually works

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

our stimulus and recovery is just fine?! really?!?! i read today that if you include people working part-time who used to work full time, and people who have given up on finding a job into the unemployment figures, that we're at almost 17% unemployment. yeah, it sounds just peachy to me. but i guess i should listen to barack more, and the naysayers less....

"The unemployment rate fell to 9.4 percent as the U.S. economy shed 247,000 jobs in July, the government announced on Friday morning. The drop -- the first in 15 months -- comes as a surprise; economists had expected the rate to rise to as high as 9.7 percent.

By a broader measure that includes people who've given up looking for work or who can't find full-time jobs, the unemployment rate fell to 16.3 percent, down from 16.5 percent in June."


'Zig, read this synopsis of the major economic indicators this guy has cobbled from Bloomberg, etc. We're not out, by any means, and won't be soon, but we are standing back from the precipice.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hale-s..._b_254600.html

[Riot]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Wait..I know...tax cuts....strip all funded programs, let the rich pay less and hope that Reagan's pipe dream actually works

Obama has already given them a tax cut in their paychecks.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Riot

Obama has already given them a tax cut in their paychecks.

That can't be true..he's a communist

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GBBob

So...Obama is to blame for this? As I always ask anyone who is blaming Obama...please..what would you be doing differently? Details Deb, AJ, Cannon, Dell...Nothing? No Stimulus? No bailouts? No cash for clunkers?

Wait..I know...tax cuts....strip all funded programs, let the rich pay less and hope that Reagan's pipe dream actually works:zz:

i'm not one to say that the exact opposite is the correct way. what i am saying is that things are certainly far from rosey, and that now is not the time to be spending billions more dollars we don't have than we are already spending. if the deficit is the huge problem many feel it is, how can growing that deficit be the answer?

obama is another politician. no more, no less. you won't see me on here cheerleading for any party. to me they are both the same, out for themselves and what keeps them in power. and no, no cash for clunkers-how ridiculous. as for the banks, that was years in the making, and should never have been allowed to occur. the war in iraq wouldn't have happened either-these are rhetorical questions, right? so i can turn back time?


edit-and no, i don't think obama is to blame for 'all this'. but i think he's ignoring what is really going on right now in his attempt to push this health care idea. this is not the right time for the govt to become larger. instead, he needs to end our two wars that are doing so much to drain our funds-that is our biggest expense, and is what took us from good times to bad. he's not to blame, our govt is. and right now, he's the leader of that govt. d.c. got us into this mess, they need to get us out. but i won't hold my breath.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Obama has already given them a tax cut in their paychecks.

one which i recall i said was ridiculous and unnecessary-with the state we're in, there should have been no cuts, and a freeze put on govt budgets, most of which saw an increase when the stimulus passed.

and here lately, i've been reading an awful lot about teachers and govt workers (maybe just in this state, but somehow i doubt it) who 'retire' and then go right back to the same job-double dipping from the public trough. it angers me. obama worrying about 'his presidency' when the country is on the line angers me. he's supposed to be our leader, not worrying about his ego or his legacy.

and i didn't think i'd ever see where almost double digit true unemployment was backing away from a precipice. positive job growth will convince me we're heading in the right direction-and that will take a lot of time. i've seen 2013, 2014 mentioned as when that could happen.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

If you can't understand that providing health care for the minority of Americans that are uninsured will help the economy - oh, yes, those big insurance companies, too, and hospitals, and thousands and thousands of "small business" doctors and health care providers (laboratories, radiology, pharmacy, etc) - aside from helping real live people, I can't help you.

If a certain provision passes (and it may not, and I assume this is what you are worried about) what it says is the only small businesses that would have to provide health care (if they do not now) would be those that have a payroll of over $250K/year. And, they can get very cheap health care for their employees if this passes, at far less than 8% of their payroll.

And additionally, having other, less expensive options - provider choices - available for purchasing healthcare only helps all small businessess by cutting their costs.

This is fantasyland. And I hate to inform you but payrolls of $250k a year is about $4800 a week. That is hardly the type of business that can afford to provide healthcare or be hit with a penalty for not providing it. If your payroll is $250k a year for your businrss the chances of the owner of the business making more than $250k a year are almost zero. Remember that little lie about raisng taxes on incomes of 250k or less? I understand there are differences in the exact wording and classification but a tax on a mans business is a tax on the man. Not to mention the ridiclous notion that somehow healthcare for all will provide the economy a boost. That is total bs. The fact is that a bunch of sick people dying faster would lessen the drag that healthcare is on the economy. If that is what you mean, that the new healthcare program will be so poorly run that it will cause more seriously ill people to die quicker than maybe you are right about the economic factor. Otherwise you are simply reading the Obama talking points and taking them at face value and if there is anything that has been learned about this administration is that taking what they say at face value will probably come back to burn you when the reality sets in.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

While using quite a few incorrect assumptions.

.

Which would be?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

But so far it appears to be working just fine.

Yeah the stimlus is working so great they have been talking about another....

[hi_im_god]

this is really bad.

i haven't seen this many pissed off old white people since they cancelled matlock.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GBBob

So...Obama is to blame for this? As I always ask anyone who is blaming Obama...please..what would you be doing differently? Details Deb, AJ, Cannon, Dell...Nothing? No Stimulus? No bailouts? No cash for clunkers?

Wait..I know...tax cuts....strip all funded programs, let the rich pay less and hope that Reagan's pipe dream actually works

I would change things by actually do something for the people that have been hurt the most and helped the least by the Obama agenda, small business. Instead of "creating" temporary govt fueled jobs, help the employers get back on thier feet without creating burdens like mandated healthcare. Concentrate on getting your own party in line with your ideas and not let second rate hacks like pelosi and reid who are dispised by a vast majority of the countries citizens regardless of demographic, run the show. Understand that Unions are detrimental to world trade in regards to US companies ability to compete and scale their influence back by just telling them no instead of giving them the keys to the blackhole that GM has become. Stop worrying about populist programs designed to swing votes instead of work constructively. Work on reducing the defecit now that it has been taken to epic heights. Remember that our allies abroad have been supportive of us and not keep stepping on their toes to curry favor with despots and religious maniacs.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

this is really bad.

i haven't seen this many pissed off old white people since they cancelled matlock.

I havent seen so many brainwashed people since the original dawn of the dead.