Zenyetta vs Racheal - Page 5

SniperSB23 · #81 08-11-2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgar311

What will happen if she gets beat? Will her stud value go down

That is the most funny part of this all. There is very little detriment to the stud value of a colt that gets beat and the whole idea that a filly that gets beat is going to loose breeding value is even more ridiculous. The whole attitude that a loss will hurt you so bad is what is killing the sport. And I'm sure part of it comes from owners moving their horses to a new trainer off a loss. Can you imagine if the Yankees only showed up to games they felt confident they would win cause their prestige would drop with every loss and the manager would be replaced? Baseball would become a joke. But that is essentially what we have in racing today.

10 pnt move up · #82 08-11-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgar311

What will happen if she gets beat? Will her stud value go down

I was speaking as far as a career record and accomplishment, but I think you new that before hitting the post button.

10 pnt move up · #83 08-11-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

That is the most funny part of this all. There is very little detriment to the stud value of a colt that gets beat and the whole idea that a filly that gets beat is going to loose breeding value is even more ridiculous. The whole attitude that a loss will hurt you so bad is what is killing the sport. And I'm sure part of it comes from owners moving their horses to a new trainer off a loss. Can you imagine if the Yankees only showed up to games they felt confident they would win cause their prestige would drop with every loss and the manager would be replaced? Baseball would become a joke. But that is essentially what we have in racing today.

Can you imagine if the bears did not show up for the super bowl because they did not like astroturf? (I believe that was John Gaines' original quote, a day for racing that would be like the super bowl).

NTamm1215 · #84 08-11-2009, 05:08 PM

The last paragraph of the DRF article on the La Derby being lengthened and pushed back was worth noting as well:

"Fair Grounds also has added a new filly-mare dirt stakes, to be run Dec. 19, which comes six weeks after the Nov. 6-7 Breeders' Cup. The 1 1/8-mile race tentatively will be worth $100,000, although Halstrom said the purse could increase substantially if superstars Rachel Alexandra and/or Zenyatta were enticed to run. "It gives all parties involved something to consider and opens the door for further discussions," said Halstrom.

http://drf.com/news/article/106268.html

NT

kgar311 · #85 08-11-2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I was speaking as far as a career record and accomplishment, but I think you new that before hitting the post button.

Yea, I wasnt really responding to your post but using it to make my point. I can understand them wanting to go undefeated and all but what does it really mean when your facing shitty Cal fillies and mares on shitty surfaces. To me her undefeated streak is no more impressive than Peppers Pride's. And as far as the BC goes she beat up on the same shitty horses she had been racing against all year, except for Ginger Punch and a couple others who would of rather sh*t on the SA surface than run on it.

SniperSB23 · #86 08-11-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Can you imagine if the bears did not show up for the super bowl because they did not like astroturf? (I believe that was John Gaines' original quote, a day for racing that would be like the super bowl).

The problem is that people are treating the BC like the Super Bowl. So much so that they aren't showing up for big races the rest of the season. It is more like if the NFL just skipped the regular season and playoffs and just put the top perceived teams in the Super Bowl and made that their season.

Danzig · #87 08-11-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Quality Road is her only competition right now, who else can run with her ?

i don't know why quality road is thought of as competition-she's decimated the three year old colts, including some that had been highly thought of. i guess since she hasn't faced him, he somehow has achieved some stature....

10 pnt move up · #88 08-11-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

The problem is that people are treating the BC like the Super Bowl. So much so that they aren't showing up for big races the rest of the season. It is more like if the NFL just skipped the regular season and playoffs and just put the top perceived teams in the Super Bowl and made that their season.

separate discussion all together

Danzig · #89 08-11-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

from what I understand Shirreffs hates the del mar track, I dont think he has run but 3-4 horses on the main this year and no two year olds. She wont run in the pacific classic from what I have been told.

i thought i heard him say she liked del mar...but then, i think the chances of her facing males anywhere is between very, very slim and no chance at all.

Danzig · #90 08-11-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

they are tired of all the questions, negative articles, trashing of the horse........trust me on this, that is not an opinion.

i don't think there have been negatives, and i certainly haven't seen any 'trashing' of her anywhere. to trash either of the two is absolutely ridiculous.

Danzig · #91 08-11-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgar311

What will happen if she gets beat? Will her stud value go down

no.

but she won't be unbeaten anymore, which is something very rarely done, especially with a top calibre horse. i'd like to see her stay unbeaten and take down the record set by pepper's pride. but she won't run enough more times to do so it seems...

King Glorious · #92 08-11-2009, 06:00 PM

http://www.drf.com/news/article/106245.html

Shirreffs is in no hurry to bring Zenyatta back to the races. He ruled out the Grade 1 Pacific Classic against males here on Sept. 6, meaning Zenyatta will make her next two starts during the Oak Tree meeting at Santa Anita. The first start is obvious - the Grade 1 Lady's Secret Stakes on Oct. 10. Then comes the Breeders' Cup on Nov. 6 and 7. Zenyatta won the BC Ladies' Classic last year, but Shirreffs and owners Jerry and Ann Moss are entertaining thoughts of the Classic, against males.

"We'll wait and see who is running in the Breeders' Cup, what the opposition is, and what's most advantageous," Shirreffs said Monday. "Right now, we just have to be patient."

Those connected with Zenyatta are desirous of a matchup with Rachel Alexandra, the country's best 3-year-old filly. If both continue to win, a race involving those two would undoubtedly determine Horse of the Year. But Jess Jackson, the majority owner of Rachel Alexandra, has stated repeatedly that the Breeders' Cup is out for his filly.

"If they," Shirreffs said, referring to Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta, "are going to decide Horse of the Year, I would hope it could be settled at the Breeders' Cup. If it isn't, and we think we have the opportunity to win it, then we'll have to go travel after the Breeders' Cup.

"The Breeders' Cup being what it is, that would be a great setting for that decision. That's what the Thoroughbred industry did, create a venue for the best horses in the country, and the world, to come together. Certainly you want to support that."
____________________________

The part in bold is what pisses me off the most about them. They have arguably the best horse in the world and they are going to let others dictate to them where they run? If you have the best horse and you BELIEVE you have the best horse, you say "I'm running here and if you think you can beat me, take your best shot." Not sit back and say "hmm, let me see which race is going to be the toughest one first....and then I'll chose the easiest one." That's complete and total bs. How in the world can you have a horse like Zenyatta and be afraid of ANY challenge? My God.

10 pnt move up · #93 08-11-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

http://www.drf.com/news/article/106245.html

Shirreffs is in no hurry to bring Zenyatta back to the races. He ruled out the Grade 1 Pacific Classic against males here on Sept. 6, meaning Zenyatta will make her next two starts during the Oak Tree meeting at Santa Anita. The first start is obvious - the Grade 1 Lady's Secret Stakes on Oct. 10. Then comes the Breeders' Cup on Nov. 6 and 7. Zenyatta won the BC Ladies' Classic last year, but Shirreffs and owners Jerry and Ann Moss are entertaining thoughts of the Classic, against males.

"We'll wait and see who is running in the Breeders' Cup, what the opposition is, and what's most advantageous," Shirreffs said Monday. "Right now, we just have to be patient."

Those connected with Zenyatta are desirous of a matchup with Rachel Alexandra, the country's best 3-year-old filly. If both continue to win, a race involving those two would undoubtedly determine Horse of the Year. But Jess Jackson, the majority owner of Rachel Alexandra, has stated repeatedly that the Breeders' Cup is out for his filly.

"If they," Shirreffs said, referring to Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta, "are going to decide Horse of the Year, I would hope it could be settled at the Breeders' Cup. If it isn't, and we think we have the opportunity to win it, then we'll have to go travel after the Breeders' Cup.

"The Breeders' Cup being what it is, that would be a great setting for that decision. That's what the Thoroughbred industry did, create a venue for the best horses in the country, and the world, to come together. Certainly you want to support that."
____________________________

The part in bold is what pisses me off the most about them. They have arguably the best horse in the world and they are going to let others dictate to them where they run? If you have the best horse and you BELIEVE you have the best horse, you say "I'm running here and if you think you can beat me, take your best shot." Not sit back and say "hmm, let me see which race is going to be the toughest one first....and then I'll chose the easiest one." That's complete and total bs. How in the world can you have a horse like Zenyatta and be afraid of ANY challenge? My God.

this is nothing new, frankel made a living on it for 30 years.

cmorioles · #94 08-11-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

are you missing what i am saying....they are really past caring anymore, its gotten old to them. they will be happy with retiring unbeaten if they can get there with two BC championships and two eclipse's.

well, that is what they say because they are probably pretty sure they would lose to RA on dirt. There is nothing wrong with the consolation prizes they seek, but she'll always retire with that black mark against her in my opinion.

Now, if Rachel isn't entered in races Zenyatta can enter, that is a different story. The BC should not be the be all and end all, and clearly the connections of Rachel Alexandra have mapped out a much more ambitious and demanding year with or without a BC.

Besides, Zenyatta won't win the classic anyway.

10 pnt move up · #95 08-11-2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Now, if Rachel isn't entered in races Zenyatta can enter, that is a different story.

Besides, Zenyatta won't win the classic anyway.

I know, you do realize there are many stupid people out there that dont even understand that fact, some in the media even. They think Zenyatta has ducked RA so far.

how does a horse who gets a 99 beyer win the breeders cup classic?

Zenyatta clearly deserves a trainer like Asmussen, thats for certain, and maybe owners like IEAH, they would race her.

DaTruth · #96 08-11-2009, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

The last paragraph of the DRF article on the La Derby being lengthened and pushed back was worth noting as well:

"Fair Grounds also has added a new filly-mare dirt stakes, to be run Dec. 19, which comes six weeks after the Nov. 6-7 Breeders' Cup. The 1 1/8-mile race tentatively will be worth $100,000, although Halstrom said the purse could increase substantially if superstars Rachel Alexandra and/or Zenyatta were enticed to run. "It gives all parties involved something to consider and opens the door for further discussions," said Halstrom.

http://drf.com/news/article/106268.html

NT

It will never happen. If those two meet in the fall, it is going to be in the Falls City Hcp on Thanksgiving weekend.

10 pnt move up · #97 08-11-2009, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaTruth

It will never happen. If those two meet in the fall, it is going to be in the Falls City Hcp on Thanksgiving weekend.

I think its interesting, but I prefer churchill.

Danzig · #98 08-12-2009, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I know, you do realize there are many stupid people out there that dont even understand that fact, some in the media even. They think Zenyatta has ducked RA so far.

how does a horse who gets a 99 beyer win the breeders cup classic?

Zenyatta clearly deserves a trainer like Asmussen, thats for certain, and maybe owners like IEAH, they would race her.

like they do stardom bound? or kip deville, i think they had a three race season in the plans for him last year...

Travis Stone · #99 08-12-2009, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

like they do stardom bound? or kip deville, i think they had a three race season in the plans for him last year...

Tough comparison as those horses are obviously not themselves anymore.

#**100** 08-12-2009, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

they are tired of all the questions, negative articles, trashing of the horse........trust me on this, that is not an opinion.

They really are two old women with self-esteem issues. They don't belong in this sport. Hopefully the next negative article will force them out of the game and the next horse they would of had goes to some connections who like a challenge and who actually care about the competitive and sporting aspect of it.