Summer Bird could be HOY

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No because he was simply a pretty good horse period.

I don't buy that for a second. He ran against some very crazy pace scenarios after he returned from Dubai last year in his dirt races. They were all either insanely slow, or on one occasion, crazy fast. Neither one is very conducive to running big figures like he did as a three year old.

That said, he still won them all.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The sad thing is that all we can do is speculate. Why do I have a feeling that JJ will spend more time next year mapping out plans than actually running?

Chuck the guy race hereverywhere. Who knows how she comes back. I suggest he will parade her anywhere that there is dirt. And if we are luck maybe he will try her on turf.although if she was as good on turf he might get silly and try the Arc. Imagine ASS winning at Longchamps. Oye

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I don't buy that for a second. He ran against some very crazy pace scenarios after he returned from Dubai last year in his dirt races. They were all either insanely slow, or on one occasion, crazy fast. Neither one is very conducive to running big figures like he did as a three year old.

That said, he still won them all.

And that makes him an alltime great?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Chuck the guy race hereverywhere. Who knows how she comes back. I suggest he will parade her anywhere that there is dirt. And if we are luck maybe he will try her on turf.although if she was as good on turf he might get silly and try the Arc. Imagine ASS winning at Longchamps. Oye

We will see.

I dont understand why anyone would not want to see her run on polytrack but would want to see her run in a race and surface that she has no prayer on? At least Curlin was a horse with no distance limitations even though he probably would have struggled with soft turf too.

[cmorioles]

I never said he was an all time great. But he was certainly better than a pretty good horse. I imagine you would kill to have a pretty good horse, let alone one of Curlin's ability...as would any trainer.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by CSC

I think at most he would have atleast reserved the right to change his mind if she doing well, it happens all the time in this sport, plans are not set in stone. Infact I find it hard to fathom why he would have said that 3 months ago not knowing how she would be doing at this stage? No doubt what he did was the smart thing it was a brilliant Preemptive strike for HOY.

Is it that hard to fathom that he really does hate synthetic surfaces and that he would stick to his word?

You make no sense.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I never said he was an all time great. But he was certainly better than a pretty good horse. I imagine you would kill to have a pretty good horse, let alone one of Curlin's ability...as would any trainer.

No Jackson did which was the point of the original post. That any trainer would want to train a horse that made 10 million is besides the point. I find is amusing that less than a year ago Curlin's "fans" and connections were calling him the greatest horse since.... and yet here we are less than a year later and RA has seemingly passed him on the greatest horse measures. And you have to believe that besides recency that his flop in the BC has to play a factor in that. The truth is that he had a very nice career but never did any thing truly extraordinary.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And that makes him an alltime great?

Of course it does.

Beating Macho Again stamps your ticket as well.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scurlogue Champ

Of course it does.

Beating Macho Again stamps your ticket as well.

Well there are a lot of all time greats out there then

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No Jackson did which was the point of the original post. That any trainer would want to train a horse that made 10 million is besides the point. I find is amusing that less than a year ago Curlin's "fans" and connections were calling him the greatest horse since.... and yet here we are less than a year later and RA has seemingly passed him on the greatest horse measures. And you have to believe that besides recency that his flop in the BC has to play a factor in that. The truth is that he had a very nice career but never did any thing truly extraordinary.

Curlin was a top tier grade 1 horse and even a better talent. He was capable of extraordinary running. Grade 1 quality horses are rare enough he was certainly a cut above the average G 1 talent. And CJ or I will never or have ever called him an all time great. Rachel is without question an all time great. And it has absolutely nothing to do with beating Macho Again in the Woodward.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Curlin was a top tier grade 1 horse and even a better talent. He was capable of extraordinary running. Grade 1 quality horses are rare enough he was certainly a cut above the average G 1 talent. And CJ or I will never or have ever called him an all time great. Rachel is without question an all time great. And it has absolutely nothing to do with beating Macho Again in the Woodward.

I'm sure that you will howl in protest but I dont think next year will go so swimmingly for her. I do predict that Jackson avoids 1 1/4 races all year. Hopefully SB and QR also stick around and stay healthy so we can have some semblance of an older horse division.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'm sure that you will howl in protest but I dont think next year will go so swimmingly for her. I do predict that Jackson avoids 1 1/4 races all year. Hopefully SB and QR also stick around and stay healthy so we can have some semblance of an older horse division.

Which 10f races should she go in? I suggested starting her at GP at 8 in the GP handicap..Then look to the most prestigous mile race in America.. After that you need to start to get her a little break and maybe a softer spot against her own at 9..Remember there are two wonderful 3 year old fillies that maybe VERY worthy competition.. So going in the Phipps and then the Go for Wand are certainly reasonable especially if she is stretching out.. Then two for the next 3 should be strongly considered in the Whitney, Woodward, and JCGC.. Then the Classic at CD.. Who else has dirt?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'm sure that you will howl in protest but I dont think next year will go so swimmingly for her. I do predict that Jackson avoids 1 1/4 races all year. Hopefully SB and QR also stick around and stay healthy so we can have some semblance of an older horse division.

I have no clue how she will fair next year. Sometimes they get better sometimes they would be better off in foal?

[Smooth Operator]

Would be hilarious if somehow SB can beat the Euros at Anita while the 'great' filly rests in her stall.



This is like the AFC champ boycotting the Super Bowl cuz it's on artificial turf. lol

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Would be hilarious if somehow SB can beat the Euros at Anita while the 'great' filly rests in her stall.



This is like the AFC champ boycotting the Super Bowl cuz it's on artificial turf. lol

I wouldnt mind Summer Bird or Zenyatta winning at all.. BTW that is "All Time Great Filly"

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Is it that hard to fathom that he really does hate synthetic surfaces and that he would stick to his word?

You make no sense.

I have no doubt he hates synthetic surfaces, I'm sure alot owners and trainers hate synth, the point is some atleast try it because that is what you do with good horses you try it when it is on a big stage. Hey if you have the all world horse of 2009, then why not show some confidence and campaign her 1 more race instead of stopping her on Sept 5. Who in their right mind maps out a campaign and says the Woodward is the final race penciled in on the yr without a chance for ammendment? Does this make sense to you? If it does we live in different universes. You said I make no sense, then I'd like to refer to not making sense as being less gullable than some of the others that are all too happy to just lap up the reasons coming from the JJ camp. I find him somewhat disingenous, then I'm all too happy to be in the minority of the opinion on that one.

[TropicalStorm]

You can't say Rachel is an all-time great unless you say Curlin was an all-time great.

Curlin's best efforts were faster than Rachels.

Curlin beat much better horses.

Curlin carried more weight.

Curlin won bigger races and much more money.

Curlin could run 10f.

Curlin actually ran 5 races in 3 weeks.

Curlin even had a grade 1 turf placing.

Rachel and Curlin are not all-time greats. That label should only be used on horses like today's ARC winner who has beaten great competition at every distance. To put Curlin or Rachel in a category with Sea The Stars is insulting to him. He isn't exactly the type of horse that would need a weight break to barely beat Macho Again or Mine That Bird.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by CSC

I have no doubt he hates synthetic surfaces, I'm sure alot owners and trainers hate synth, the point is some atleast try it. Hey if you have the all world horse of 2009, then why not show some confidence and campaign her 1 more race instead instead of stopping on Sept 5. Who in their right mind maps out a campaign and says the Woodward is the final race penciled in on the yr without a chance for ammendment. You say I make no sense, I'd like to refer to this as being less gullable than some that are all too happy to just lap up the reasons coming from JJ camp.

The guy bought the horse the first week in May you figure he mapped out a campaign??? Come on have a heart. They rushed her to the Preakness, drained the life out of her, rested her up crushed in the Goose, then finished up with Smashing wins against colts AGAIN and older horses..Who maps out 8 racetracks in one year for a 3 year old filly.. It was more of a circus act then campaign

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by CrossfireHurricane

You can't say Rachel is an all-time great unless you say Curlin was an all-time great.

Curlin's best efforts were faster than Rachels.

Curlin beat much better horses.

Curlin carried more weight.

Curlin won bigger races and much more money.

Curlin could run 10f.

Curlin actually ran 5 races in 3 weeks.

Curlin even had a grade 1 turf placing.

Rachel and Curlin are not all-time greats. That label should only be used on horses like today's ARC winner who has beaten great competition at every distance. To put Curlin or Rachel in a category with Sea The Stars is insulting to him. He isn't exactly the type of horse that would need a weight break to barely beat Macho Again or Mine That Bird.

All time great filly..I figured you realized Rachel was a female horse I apoliges..

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by CrossfireHurricane

You can't say Rachel is an all-time great unless you say Curlin was an all-time great.

Curlin's best efforts were faster than Rachels.

Curlin beat much better horses.

Curlin carried more weight.

Curlin won bigger races and much more money.

Curlin could run 10f.

Curlin actually ran 5 races in 3 weeks.

Curlin even had a grade 1 turf placing.

Rachel and Curlin are not all-time greats. That label should only be used on horses like today's ARC winner who has beaten great competition at every distance. To put Curlin or Rachel in a category with Sea The Stars is insulting to him. He isn't exactly the type of horse that would need a weight break to barely beat Macho Again or Mine That Bird.

oh. my. god.

Curlin also had testicles.