UPDATE: State meets obligation to NYRA; Legislature OK's advance

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

School districts in NY, for example, are putting out budgets without knowing state aid figures. And health care facilities may see reimbursement rates cut by the state, after budgets have been prepared.

Are school districts and health care facilities really comparable to the situation that we are talking about?

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by pointman

Save for the fact that we all know that NYRA will get the cash, what has NYRA done so bad since being awarded the franchise that would concern the morons who were against them, let alone try to void NYRA's franchise agreement?

I'm not suggesting that NYRA has done anything that would warrant them losing the franchise. However, that is irrelevant if some corrupt politician(s) wanted to re-link the racing franchise with the VLT contract and saw a shutdown as a way to accomplish that goal.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Are school districts and health care facilities really comparable to the situation that we are talking about?

You asked for entities that get money from the state while the state simultaneously regulates them. Hospitals certainly fall into that category (get Medicaid $$ while regulated by DOH); schools, subject to audit by the Comptroller, are probably a less perfect analogy.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

The Highway Authority has operated a business that has poured money to the state. You know the guys that take the toll money. I havent blamed the current NYRA managemment once. The states in trouble that means NYRA is in trouble period. BTW laws get chaged all the time..Look NYRA will get the hand out they are requesting. I never thought for a minute they wouldnt..It is sad to see the negative "we are goiing out of business" publicity

The highway Authority? Isnt the highway Authority a function of the state? Doesnt the state "own" the highways? What's next the dept of taxation? Those arent businesses.

The law isnt nor will it be changed. You know that. Handout? LOL. Your grasp of the situation seems on par with the Daily News editorial boards. That is not a compliment.

NYRA is simply playing by the rules of engagement of politics in NYS. Really what choice have they been given?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

You asked for entities that get money from the state while the state simultaneously regulates them. Hospitals certainly fall into that category (get Medicaid $$ while regulated by DOH); schools, subject to audit by the Comptroller, are probably a less perfect analogy.

Is what NYRA asking for considered "state aid"?

NYRA officials argue that the state--because it now owns NYCOTB--is on the hook for the money owed NYRA by the OTB giant. NYCOTB, in its Chapter 9 bankruptcy filing, acknowledges a $15 million debt to NYRA; officials at NYRA have said that amount has since grown to $17 million.

"NYRA has a good case for the money," Pretlow said. "OTB is the state and OTB owes NYRA, ergo, the state owes NYRA."

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Really what choice have they been given?

This appears to be what many don't get.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Is what NYRA asking for considered "state aid"?

It doesn't matter what it is called. Yes, NYS is contractually obliged to pay NYRA the racino "continuation" payments (and it's probably also on the hook for NYCOTB), but just because you have a contractual right to something doesn't mean you are going to get it. NYS also has contracts with the government employee unions. The governor just tried to unilaterally impose furloughs in a manner that a federal court judge concluded was in violation of those contracts. So it's not like NYRA is the only party in whom the state may be in default on its obligations.

The simple fact is, that given the tarring that it has endured in recent years, NYRA is not viewed in a particularly sympathetic light by a general public that doesn't think the state should be in the gambling business, especially when they perceive it to be losing money. At a time when hospitals are closing and teachers are being laid off, many people (I'm not one of them) believe that giving money to NYRA is a misplaced priority. Just read the many blogs on the newspaper websites, including the Times-Union and Saratogian, to get a sense of this sentiment. This is why what should be a simple thing to do contractually is proving problematic from a legislative perspective.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

It doesn't matter what it is called. Yes, NYS is contractually obliged to pay NYRA the racino "continuation" payments (and it's probably also on the hook for NYCOTB), but just because you have a contractual right to something doesn't mean you are going to get it. NYS also has contracts with the government employee unions. The governor just tried to unilaterally impose furloughs in a manner that a federal court judge concluded was in violation of those contracts. So it's not like NYRA is the only party in whom the state may be in default on its obligations.

The simple fact is, that given the tarring that it has endured in recent years, NYRA is not viewed in a particularly sympathetic light by a general public that doesn't think the state should be in the gambling business, especially when they perceive it to be losing money. At a time when hospitals are closing and teachers are being laid off, many people (I'm not one of them) believe that giving money to NYRA is a misplaced priority. Just read the many blogs on the newspaper websites, including the Times-Union and Saratogian, to get a sense of this sentiment. This is why what should be a simple thing to do contractually is proving problematic from a legislative perspective.

Well let me ask you a question. If all this is true (and I do believe it to be that) then what chance does NYRA or any other racing entity for that matter, have if the state which owns the OTB, controls a great deal of what NYRA/franchise holder does and is broke, can simply opt out of its financial obligations because of poor public perception of racing, the vast majority of which was falsely created by the state? Seriously, if the state can simply turn up the bad news meter everytime they don't want to pay NYRA monies owed to them ask yourself the question that you originally posed. Why would any of the board of directors (or anyone for that matter) loan money to NYRA under those circumstances?

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Well let me ask you a question. If all this is true (and I do believe it to be that) then what chance does NYRA or any other racing entity for that matter, have if the state which owns the OTB, controls a great deal of what NYRA/franchise holder does and is broke, can simply opt out of its financial obligations because of poor public perception of racing, the vast majority of which was falsely created by the state? Seriously, if the state can simply turn up the bad news meter everytime they don't want to pay NYRA monies owed to them ask yourself the question that you originally posed. Why would any of the board of directors (or anyone for that matter) loan money to NYRA under those circumstances?

That's a very fair question; one that I really don't have an answer for.

However, having fought hard for the franchise and for a change in its corporate status, I'd like to think NYRA had other alternatives to only pinning its hopes for continuing racing on getting legislative relief (whether it's owed that money contractually or morally is really besides the point when dealing with Albany pols). And as I said earlier, against the NYCOTB back-drop, I think NYRA has painted itself into such a corner that, if some alternative did exist aside from legislative action for a loan or some other funding stream, NYRA probably couldn't exercise it. Because this should have been an easy lift and it hasn't been accomplished so far, I get a bad feeling about it. Patterson saying that something will get done is just BS; it's the legislature that needs to agree, and when Shelly Silver is involved, there's always a price to pay.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

That's a very fair question; one that I really don't have an answer for.

However, having fought hard for the franchise and for a change in its corporate status, I'd like to think NYRA had other alternatives to only pinning its hopes for continuing racing on getting legislative relief (whether it's owed that money contractually or morally is really besides the point when dealing with Albany pols). And as I said earlier, against the NYCOTB back-drop, I think NYRA has painted itself into such a corner that, if some alternative did exist aside from legislative action for a loan or some other funding stream, NYRA probably couldn't exercise it. Because this should have been an easy lift and it hasn't been accomplished so far, I get a bad feeling about it. Patterson saying that something will get done is just BS; it's the legislature that needs to agree, and when Shelly Silver is involved, there's always a price to pay.

What is it that you suggest NYRA should do instead of what they are being forced to do? Don't you think cashflow is seriously hurt when you are owed $17 million by someone who refuses to pay and you know you are not getting it anytime soon?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

That's a very fair question; one that I really don't have an answer for.

However, having fought hard for the franchise and for a change in its corporate status, I'd like to think NYRA had other alternatives to only pinning its hopes for continuing racing on getting legislative relief (whether it's owed that money contractually or morally is really besides the point when dealing with Albany pols). And as I said earlier, against the NYCOTB back-drop, I think NYRA has painted itself into such a corner that, if some alternative did exist aside from legislative action for a loan or some other funding stream, NYRA probably couldn't exercise it. Because this should have been an easy lift and it hasn't been accomplished so far, I get a bad feeling about it. Patterson saying that something will get done is just BS; it's the legislature that needs to agree, and when Shelly Silver is involved, there's always a price to pay.

I am hardly an expert on NYRA's business and the complexities of the contracts between the various entities that it deals with. But what alternatives do they have if the largest business partner that thay have (and have no choice to end the relationship) has the ability to not fulfill its obligations? The alternative that would have given them the ability to carry on has been screwed up by the state for 9 years. Again, in theory, what would have been the realistic alternatives?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The highway Authority? Isnt the highway Authority a function of the state? Doesnt the state "own" the highways? What's next the dept of taxation? Those arent businesses.

The law isnt nor will it be changed. You know that. Handout? LOL. Your grasp of the situation seems on par with the Daily News editorial boards. That is not a compliment.

NYRA is simply playing by the rules of engagement of politics in NYS. Really what choice have they been given?

The state owns NYRA make no mistake about it. NYRA is as independant as my 6 year old son. They rake as told, they expand or contract as told, basically they are an oversight group. The funny part is you all think I am ANTI NYRA ? Why would I be? The new group is wonderful but to think the guys running the park system are less entitled to the states money is comical at best?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I am hardly an expert on NYRA's business and the complexities of the contracts between the various entities that it deals with. But what alternatives do they have if the largest business partner that thay have (and have no choice to end the relationship) has the ability to not fulfill its obligations? The alternative that would have given them the ability to carry on has been screwed up by the state for 9 years. Again, in theory, what would have been the realistic alternatives?

NOBODY suggests NYRA isnt 100% correct in there demands of the State ...The State is in financial turmoil do you understand that or you figure they are printing money like Obama?

[pointman]

Originally Posted by freddymo

The state owns NYRA make no mistake about it. NYRA is as independant as my 6 year old son. They rake as told, they expand or contract as told, basically they are an oversight group. The funny part is you all think I am ANTI NYRA ? Why would I be? The new group is wonderful but to think the guys running the park system are less entitled to the states money is comical at best?

Please Freddy, NYRA neither has the option as to whether to contract with OTB nor the right to negotiate the rate at which to sell their product to them. Don't you think that makes them different than any other business and that the State controls this alone obligates the State to put up the $17 million NYCOTB owns them?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by pointman

Please Freddy, NYRA neither has the option as to whether to contract with OTB nor the right to negotiate the rate at which to sell their product to them. Don't you think that makes them different than any other business and that the State controls this alone obligates the State to put up the $17 million NYCOTB owns them?

I think it makes them a state run oversight assc. exactlt what they were prescribed to do..Toll collectors nothing more nothing less. Sorry it isnt a business and its failure or success is based soley on NY

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by pointman

What is it that you suggest NYRA should do instead of what they are being forced to do? Don't you think cashflow is seriously hurt when you are owed $17 million by someone who refuses to pay and you know you are not getting it anytime soon?

Absolutely, cash flow is hurt when NYCOTB doesn't pay, but speaking to people whose living is in the racing industry, this problem is partly NYRA's doing, as it has been very late to the belt-tightening table. It eliminated 12 positions only this past spring, and it still has executives on the payroll whose value (v. salary) is questioned on the backstretch. It could have eliminated the detention barn and closed training at Aqueduct and saved about $600K per month according to public reports, and it chose not to.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Absolutely, cash flow is hurt when NYCOTB doesn't pay, but speaking to people whose living is in the racing industry, this problem is partly NYRA's doing, as it has been very late to the belt-tightening table. It eliminated 12 positions only this past spring, and it still has executives on the payroll whose value (v. salary) is questioned on the backstretch. It could have eliminated the detention barn and closed training at Aqueduct and saved about $600K per month according to public reports, and it chose not to.

So they would be $14 million short?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

The state owns NYRA make no mistake about it. NYRA is as independant as my 6 year old son. They rake as told, they expand or contract as told, basically they are an oversight group. The funny part is you all think I am ANTI NYRA ? Why would I be? The new group is wonderful but to think the guys running the park system are less entitled to the states money is comical at best?

Why do i bother...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

NOBODY suggests NYRA isnt 100% correct in there demands of the State ...The State is in financial turmoil do you understand that or you figure they are printing money like Obama?

If NYRA is correct then explain your posts. The state isnt so broke that it cant spare the $17 million dollars it owes. The idea that some hospital will close because NYRA gets paid what it is owed is pretty much nonsensical. If the state REALLY wanted to do what is in the best interests of NYRA, the state, NYCOTB and ultimately the citizens it would have disbanded NYCOTB and turned the off track betting rights to NYC over to NYRA.

But like the VLT debacle, they continue to let petty political corruption get in the way of progress and profitability. Racing in NY should not only be a strong, vibrant industry, it with the combo of VLT's and an increasingly better racing program should be churning out money for the state. Instead NYRA is out of money, NYCOTB is totally paralyzed and there hasn't been a dime of tax revenue produced by the Aqu VLTs. And every finger should be pointed directly at the state of NY's politcal bosses. They made this mess, now they don't want to clean it up.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Why do i bother...

You guys are so close to the trees you dont see the forest. Byk makes me laugh on the air with his narrow opinion.. Trickle down economicas is my favorite lol like offering the same breaks to GM doesnt have the same if not better trickle done result?

Steve, Carolina would have been a huge earn today the fn food stands were packed..Ship in a kiosk ASAP lol