Another Brilliant Plan Out of WI

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

He's cut the budget. He's cut waste from Medicare. He's cut millions from Medicare waste to make the PPACA self-funding with no tax increase. The PPACA protects consumers. He's given multiple incentive tax breaks across the board to individuals and small businesses. He's shrunk the number of people in the federal government. The auto bailout is virtually paid back (Chrysler paid back all of theirs this week) and we still have an auto industry with all the associated jobs and supportive businesses. We are not in a depression. He's signed in multiple laws to protect citizens (Lilly ledbetter, etc). He's gotten us out of Iraq. He is drawing down in Afghanistan. He requested and received billions in defense spending cuts.

Etc., Etc, Etc.

Total debt is budgeted to increase from $11.9 trillion in FY2009, to $13.8 trillion in FY2010, and $15.1 trillion in FY2011. Where did he cut the budget?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Total debt is budgeted to increase from $11.9 trillion in FY2009, to $13.8 trillion in FY2010, and $15.1 trillion in FY2011. Where did he cut the budget?

Within military and discretionary spending.

Why is the bottom line increasing? Because Bush started unfunded wars, unfunded drug Rx givaway and unfunded tax cuts. We had to borrow money to pay for those things, with interest.

The expense of borrowing to pay for those items and the interest make up a good portion of our current budget deficit, and keep increasing (cost of Iraq spread over 10 years, etc).

Bush increased our spending markedly, while decreasing our real income. Then we had to borrow, with interest, over time, to pay for all of it. And that interest is accumulating.

So attributing a bottom line increase in the budget to Obama isn't accurate - a major portion the budget is borrowed money with interest, to keep making payments on things when Bush gave out the tax cuts without cutting spending.

We had to borrow the money with interest to make up for our income loss.

We had to borrow money with interest to pay for the wars, and the drug giveaway.

And those costs were not paid for during the Bush administration, they are carried out over years, with the interest compounding onto whomever comes subsequently.

So the bottom line increases, even as the budget is cut. That is why spending cuts alone, without raising our revenue, will never, ever put us in the black.

The facts are the greatest part of our deficit is the money we borrow with interest to replace the revenue lost with the tax cuts, because spending was not cut at that time (the cuts were not paid for) The other great cost was the money borrowed with interest to pay for the unfunded wars.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Within military and discretionary spending.

Why is the bottom line increasing? Because Bush started unfunded wars, unfunded drug Rx givaway and unfunded tax cuts. We had to borrow money to pay for those things, with interest.

The expense of borrowing to pay for those items and the interest make up a good portion of our current budget deficit, and keep increasing (cost of Iraq spread over 10 years, etc).

Bush increased our spending markedly, while decreasing our real income. Then we had to borrow, with interest, over time, to pay for all of it. And that interest is accumulating.

So attributing a bottom line increase in the budget to Obama isn't accurate - a major portion the budget is borrowed money with interest, to keep making payments on things when Bush gave out the tax cuts without cutting spending.

We had to borrow the money with interest to make up for our income loss.

We had to borrow money with interest to pay for the wars, and the drug giveaway.

And those costs were not paid for during the Bush administration, they are carried out over years, with the interest compounding onto whomever comes subsequently.

So the bottom line increases, even as the budget is cut. That is why spending cuts alone, without raising our revenue, will never, ever put us in the black.

The facts are the greatest part of our deficit is the money we borrow with interest to replace the revenue lost with the tax cuts, because spending was not cut at that time (the cuts were not paid for) The other great cost was the money borrowed with interest to pay for the unfunded wars.

ok, I get it now. It is all Bush's fault. If I remember right Obama extended the bush tax cuts...

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

ok, I get it now. It is all Bush's fault. If I remember right Obama extended the bush tax cuts...

Wow. Way to totally ignore the point.

You asked why the budget is increasing. It is because we have had to borrow money over the long term, with interest, and we continue to borrow money, long term with interest, to pay for unfunded wars and tax cuts and prescriptions.

The portion of the budget and deficit attributable to TARP, to the two stimulus, to the bailouts (auto all paid back now anyway) is small. The normal discretionary portion of the budget is very small compared to the rest, and Obama has indeed cut that.

That's simply the truth. The discretionary portion of the budget is tiny. We could stop paying for all of Medicare, and Social Security, and all discretionary things, and the money we owe would continue to increase over the next ten years until it tops out.

You think Obama increased the budget? Please - itemize out the budget to show where that is. (edit - here are two charts at the bottom and the information http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3490 )

The majority of budget increases we are seeing is money and interest we owe on borrowed money due to things bought on credit in the Bush years. There is no way to ignore that.

Yes, I was completely against Obama extending the Bush tax cuts. It was the wrong move. They need to expire and help us cut the deficits.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Wow. Way to totally ignore the point.

You asked why the budget is increasing. It is because we have had to borrow money over the long term, with interest, and we continue to borrow money, long term with interest, to pay for unfunded wars and tax cuts and prescriptions.

The portion of the budget and deficit attributable to TARP, to the two stimulus, to the bailouts (auto all paid back now anyway) is small. The normal discretionary portion of the budget is very small compared to the rest, and Obama has indeed cut that.

That's simply the truth. The discretionary portion of the budget is tiny. We could stop paying for all of Medicare, and Social Security, and all discretionary things, and the money we owe would continue to increase over the next ten years until it tops out.

You think Obama increased the budget? Please - itemize out the budget to show where that is. The majority of budget increases we are seeing is money and interest we owe on borrowed money due to things bought on credit in the Bush years. There is no way to ignore that.

Yes, I was completely against Obama extending the Bush tax cuts. It was the wrong move. They need to expire and help us cut the deficits.

No really I get it. It was Bush's fault.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

No really I get it. It was Bush's fault.

Yes, it was Bush's fault. But that wasn't the meaning or point of my post, was it? My post wasn't political, it was financial. Why is our budget going up with the figures you posted? I had an answer, backed by figures. You think it's wrong? You say it is due to Obama? The contributions of figures for the Bush and Obama bailouts, TARP and the stimulus are right in the graph I posted.

So do tell - please, give us an itemized list of the budget, and what components make it up, so we can see the difference.

such a psychopath.

[Riot]

"I hate Obama. He's responsible for everything I want to blame him for. Facts don't matter"

The U.S. National Debt and How It Got So Big
http://useconomy.about.com/od/fiscal.../p/US_Debt.htm

Obama approved increasing funding for some of those plans that are part of that prescription deal you rail Bush for daily.

We're still at war. He's actually increased defense spending.

You're a hypocrite because of a school girl crush.

It's ok.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Obama approved increasing funding for some of those plans that are part of that prescription deal you rail Bush for daily.

We're still at war. He's actually increased defense spending.

You're a hypocrite because of a school girl crush.

It's ok.

That's right. The increased Rx deal is part of the PPACA and that entire thing comes out to net zero budget increase (it's paid for).

Feel free to itemize how the defense spending has increased with Libya compared to the drawdowns in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Then you can tell us how Obama, and not our previous debt borrowing w/interest, is reponsible for the the budget increases that Wiphan is so desperately worried about laying at Obama's feet.

Or can you only make unsupported statements and call names, because you only have interest in hating who you hate, and those that don't agree with your politics, and not discussing politics or finance?

So your logic is these programs that Bush introduced are bad but since we've got them now with Obama they're o.k.

You're a psychopath.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

So your logic is these programs that Bush introduced are bad but since we've got them now with Obama they're o.k.

You're a psychopath.

Can't support statements about budget. Must change subject, make up strawman, try insults.

Only a psychopath would believe something is "paid for" when we're showing a deficit of $14.3 trillion.

Fuzzy math all you want, Riot. You're wrong and clinically insane. Deal with it.

[Riot]

Can't. Understand. Numbers. Make up more strawman! Default. Insult!

Obama is your Hare Krishna we get it.

Psychopath.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Obama is your Hare Krishna we get it.

Psychopath.

"Total debt is budgeted to increase from $11.9 trillion in FY2009, to $13.8 trillion in FY2010, and $15.1 trillion in FY2011."

Tell me what makes up the budget.

Let me get some popcorn.

"Hey I've got $140,000 in debt but I found $500 in an old pair of khakis. I'm going to say f.uck it and pay the monthly minimum and use this $500 on my b.itch. She whines all the f.ucking time and this will shut her up. Plus she'll suck my d.ick and fight other b.itches and haters who be on me for being a stupid, broke ass buster."

I've got her defending a program she uses as a talking point against us.

She's that insane, people.

[Riot]

psychopath

Originally Posted by Riot

"Total debt is budgeted to increase from $11.9 trillion in FY2009, to $13.8 trillion in FY2010, and $15.1 trillion in FY2011."

Tell me what makes up the budget.

Let me get some popcorn.

Nah but I'll reveal who you are...