Lawyer Ron Goes to Pletcher.. - Page 5

Danzig · #81 09-29-2006, 11:20 PM

if anyone knows how this game is played, it's bob holthus. i think he felt this coming since the moment strong contender passed ron in the stretch.

as for pletcher....one day he'll be like dwl--he'll generate the same hate and venom as lukas did. the ones who go to the top, all alone, and then stay there always do. some will respect him, some will learn from him, some will continue to enjoy watching a master at his work...and the rest will spew at him at every opportunity. it's human nature.

Danzig · #82 09-29-2006, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merasmag

MONTHS? i may not've been posting but i've been keeping the tabs i could-please define MONTHS...because to the best of my knowledge, the horse was injured from about 5/6 to 8/something

months as in lawyer ron was rank in the ark derby and he was rank last week.

Danzig · #83 09-29-2006, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merasmag

won the arkansas derby

i'm aware of that....but he lost the super derby, which cost holthus the horse. we all know this is a what have you done for me lately business. april was a long time ago, and ark doesn't get much respect as far as drawing breeders. you can bet your ass that alex and smarty wouldn't be drawing anywhere near as much attention had they not gone on to further success after oaklawn.

Danzig · #84 09-29-2006, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merasmag

i think in this case they thought (rightly) that if holthus got a chance to plead his case minds might be changed... they did it to spare themselves the discomfort, indecision, sympathy and second-guessing that comes when u do something u have to do, even tho u don't want to do it...in this case, it's cause jv will now be on lr (and i think lr wouldda won everything anyway so it does suck for me and my odds now that all u people want to jump on his bandwagon but i'll deal with it)

i doubt it had anything to do with possibly getting cold feet. you make up your mind, and you act. don't *****foot around! time is money, the quicker they make the move, the better. i know that's how i am in my job. think, decide, act. don't half step, EVER!

Danzig · #85 09-29-2006, 11:42 PM

also, for reference, look at sir cherokee--arkansas derby winner, he stands for 7.5k. that won't cover a six million dollar purchase price for years!

#86 09-30-2006, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

And may I remind you of something else, everybody has made a lotta cash on this horse, except the current owner!!!! The former owner and his estate, the trainer, the jockey, the people who own the mare or the half siblings all made out great!!! But the guy who owns him now, well he aint doing so hot compared to them, that guys stuck a lotta cabbage. Lots easier to be loyal and all that when you aren't stuck your ass on an investment.

Since when do owners with money invest in horses to make money?

I think there are much better ways to make or recoup money than buying a racehorse. Since part of this thread has to do with the economics of this deal, it is stupidity for the owner to buy the horse with the expectation of making a profit. Much, Much better places to put money.

If anyone but big breeders make money buy purchasing horses, they are obviously extremely talented and should try something else that they can really make a lot of money. This is NOT a money making sport for owners.

#87 09-30-2006, 12:35 AM

I never posted on the ESPN board because ESPN doesn't know a damn thing about horse racing.

Scav · #88 09-30-2006, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merasmag

whatever u say pp

Sharon, sweetheart, you hit the bottle tonight?

Scav · #89 09-30-2006, 01:10 AM

DaHoss is a good dude, chill out.....You going to be at Soldier Field Sunday night?

Kasept · #90 09-30-2006, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

If there was an unhappiness with things you think they could have made a rider switch first, had McKee specifically been the issue..

Steve that is the statement of a "rank amateur". Riders mean nothing, although they ALL screw up many times.

As far as the trainer switch (I know NOTHING about it) but any of these switches from one of these "flavor of the month" trainers to one of the guys that's won 500 stakes is MORE OFTEN than NOT a good move.

I do not understand how he could wind up with TP if the contract was specific about "no trainer change".

DP..

If riders screw up many times, then I suppose they DO mean something in the scheme of things.. And on the subject of horses that DEMAND the lead, they mean a ton.

You don't see where a guy as small as McKee is ineffectual on this horse? And that his attempted chokeholds are the problem? Please.. As mentioned way back in the thread, the death of Precisionist this week just happened to bring out trainer Ross Fenstermaker and a discussion of how he had McCarron learn to let the horse relax. He had him drop the reins, grab mane and let Precisionist 'rate himself'... which is what many a horse will do. But if you pull on a horse, he pulls back. Wasted energy on both side of the equation...

Still no word on the details of the trainer stipulation in the bill of sale... But I heard from an employee involved in this at CD yesterday, and he said that the Holthus people had been under the impression, likely from the Hines people, that the horse would finish his career under their supervision...

The move is 'wrong' on many fronts, and while horses have been moved forever, this particular episode is another symptom in an ill patient...

Revolution · #91 09-30-2006, 10:55 AM

Pletcher couldn't get one of his own to the Classic (ahem Flower Alley) so he goes out and steals one. Lawyer Ron is not winning anything anyway. I would be shocked if he retires this year. Nobody is going to send him any good mares and he would be a Florida caliber stallion anyway.

#92 09-30-2006, 11:01 AM

I think it's a pretty bad move, and they did it a low class way to boot.

Revolution · #93 09-30-2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

With all due respect I highly doubt Pletcher "stole" him. Was Holthus given a raw deal, sure. But Pletcher did nothing to him.

I am sure a phone call or a conversation was had by the people that own Value Plus and Lawyer Ron. Last I checked Value Plus was a Pletcher horse. Who moves a horse with one race left in the year unless somebody suggested it? Only people with no class.

#94 09-30-2006, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Unless I missed something, what does Value Plus have to do with Lawyer Ron.

Stonewall Farms connection?

Ez

mclem10011 · #95 09-30-2006, 11:17 AM

The horse has got talent, he very fast we all know that. As seen by his most recent effort, LR does what he wants to do, and McKee was along for the ride, and isn't strong enough to control this particular horse. No knock on J. Mckee, we know he's a great rider, and Holthus is a great trainer, but I feel that it may have been time for them to part ways. Pletcher what can you say, the guy knows his stuff, and if anyone can get this horse to rate somehow, TP may be the man for the job. Who would be the choice to ride LR in the BC, or maybe more importantly who will decide to take the chance on a wild ride that day? Top jocks who seem to be firmly with other BC day mounts. Time will tell I suppose, should be an interesting story to follow.

#96 09-30-2006, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Oh okay, but I still don't get the correlation. Value Plus, who I think is retired was owned by The Jones's when he ran.

That's all I could come up with...

Ez

#97 09-30-2006, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'll make the over/under on number of remaining starts for Lawyer Ron 3 1/2....and you have to lay a price to go under.

The Pletcherization of racing is not good for the game. Not Todd's fault but feeding too many top horses into one outfit is not beneficial to the overall health of the industry.

Darn... you run a tough book.

Ez

Gander · #98 09-30-2006, 11:37 AM

Enter the White Mercedes!

And Strong Contender... looks Lawyer Ron in the eye and goes right on bye.

Bye Bye!

smartyalex · #99 10-01-2006, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I agree with everything but 2. We don't know that there wasn't an agreement when they purchased the horse that they would retain Holthus as trainer throughout LR's career. If there was that agreement then they'd better have a pretty darn good reason for switching trainers.

Reasons don't mean s*** when this was added in the contract. Very nice point Snipe

smartyalex · #**100** 10-01-2006, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mclem10011

The horse has got talent, he very fast we all know that. As seen by his most recent effort, LR does what he wants to do, and McKee was along for the ride, and isn't strong enough to control this particular horse. No knock on J. Mckee, we know he's a great rider, and Holthus is a great trainer, but I feel that it may have been time for them to part ways. Pletcher what can you say, the guy knows his stuff, and if anyone can get this horse to rate somehow, TP may be the man for the job. Who would be the choice to ride LR in the BC, or maybe more importantly who will decide to take the chance on a wild ride that day? Top jocks who seem to be firmly with other BC day mounts. Time will tell I suppose, should be an interesting story to follow.

Martinez or Prado both showed interest after his loss. This was before the Trainer change as well! Mr. Holthus had not even a chance to discuss the possibilty for LR's new mount, before STONEDwall pulled the horse.