Steve Haskin;s Top Derby Contendars - Page 5

SentToStud · #81 01-16-2007, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eurobounce

We will see come year end when Zito is again no better than 20th in trainer stats.

Just because someone doesn't start a zillion horses doesn't mean he's not a top trainer.

Maybe he has chosen to have a smaller stable than in prior years.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who can train Anromedas Hero to earnngs of $800,000+ doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame; he probably deserves to have his own wing.

KY_Sasquash · #82 01-16-2007, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Combine 31st in trainer stats with the 20th last year and you can see a nice pattern developing here. He was 8th in 2005, 9th in 2004, 14th in 2003 and 23rd in 2002. I think the year 2002, 2006 and so far in 2007 is more reflective of his training skill. He fits between 20-40. A couple of good years. But Zito is avg at best. I can name 20 trainers I would rather have than Zito. And apparently so can many owners.

Zito had 3 graded stakes winners and trainers that had more than him were: Pletcher, Frankel, Mott, R.Mandella, Biancone, McLaughlin, Matz, Canani, ONeill, Clement, bin Surroor, Baffert, and Tagg.
He doesnt have the stable size of Pletcher and doesnt have a stable on the West Coast, doesnt receive horses from the Sheiks, and two of his top clients (Live Oak-distributes their horses amongst 4-5 trainers and LaPenta-he buys yearlings for him and the pinhook them at the 2yo sales, keeping the ones that dont meet their reserve (on a side note they've done very well with this plan)) Thus he's doing pretty well in his spot, considering he's in the top 13 for graded stakes winners.

brianwspencer · #83 01-16-2007, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentToStud

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who can train Anromedas Hero to earnngs of $800,000+ doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame; he probably deserves to have his own wing.

Beautiful.

#84 01-16-2007, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Good question. IF TGM comes out of retirement and wins then he is at the top of everyone'e list.

The 16 million dollar bust? I see turf in his future.

Sightseek · #85 01-16-2007, 02:59 PM

Good news guys!

I just got back from lunch and picked up a "I'm sorry your career is slipping away" card for Zito....would anyone else like to sign it?

#86 01-16-2007, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Good news guys!

I just got back from lunch and picked up a "I'm sorry your career is slipping away" card for Zito....would anyone else like to sign it?

I think we need to make a movie about is. It would be the most over-hyped movie ever--sort of like Zito's career.

#87 01-16-2007, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I think we need to make a movie about is. It would be the most over-hyped movie ever--sort of like Zito's career.

I can't bash Zito, because he is who he is, but he has mishandled Sun King's career. This horse ran the two best races of his life in a 7F sprint and the Met Mile. So what does Nick do? Run him in the Classic at a mile and a 1/4.

Sightseek · #88 01-16-2007, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jax Cajun

I can't bash Zito, because he is who he is, but he has mishandled Sun King's career. This horse ran the two best races of his life in a 7F sprint and the Met Mile. So what does Nick do? Run him in the Classic at a mile and a 1/4.

What about his Whitney?

SniperSB23 · #89 01-16-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jax Cajun

I can't bash Zito, because he is who he is, but he has mishandled Sun King's career. This horse ran the two best races of his life in a 7F sprint and the Met Mile. So what does Nick do? Run him in the Classic at a mile and a 1/4.

Considering the horse had only lost by a nose at 9 furlongs to the horse that won the Classic it is tough to say he shouldn't have been there.

#90 01-16-2007, 03:20 PM

True true. He did have that outside post on the rail friendly Breeder's Classic.

Linny · #91 01-16-2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jax Cajun

I can't bash Zito, because he is who he is, but he has mishandled Sun King's career. This horse ran the two best races of his life in a 7F sprint and the Met Mile. So what does Nick do? Run him in the Classic at a mile and a 1/4.

What was he to do? Lay him off for a year and bring him back in the '07 BC Mile and 70yards?

kentuckyrosesinmay · #92 01-16-2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Only that I think Street Sense is leaps and bounds ahead of where Private Vow ever stood in terms of talent -- which should be factored into the equation of how they may handle similar situations.

I have to agree with you. Street Sense is much better than Private Vow ever was.

#93 01-16-2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Well this thread certainly took a turn for the worse. Haskin's list is pretty good IMO. And you'll be hard pressed to find a better trainer than Zito. You don't win the races he has because of luck. As for the decline in his career, it's very difficult to be a top 10 trainer every year when you don't have the starters that Lake, Asmussen or pletcher does. His career as a whole speaks for itself and anyone bad mouthing him is either looking for attention or a troll. Or both....

Haskins list is pretty good. I agree with you. Hard to argue with his list. Makes sense now, but I am sure it will change come April. And I think people have a right to bash Zito. Take a couple of years out of his career and he is a avg trainer at best.

slotdirt · #94 01-16-2007, 04:29 PM

Yeah, if by "couple" you mean those like 10 or 12 years where he was training Bird Town, Birdstone, Go for Gin, Louis Quatorze, Strike the Gold, Thirty Six Red, Bellamy Road, Sun King, Albert the Great and many others, he really was average.

#95 01-16-2007, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Yeah, if by "couple" you mean those like 10 or 12 years where he was training Bird Town, Birdstone, Go for Gin, Louis Quatorze, Strike the Gold, Thirty Six Red, Bellamy Road, Sun King, Albert the Great and many others, he really was average.

Bellamy Road and Sun King--are you serious. Take 1991 to 1996 out and you have a very avg trainer with an occassional good horse.

#96 01-16-2007, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Why take a couple of years off of his career, because they were very successful? I always loved that line of thinking. In that case the opposite would be to take a couple of his less successful years and his career looks even better. Either way, this is ridiculous.

Pick any of his down years and his career is still avg. Face it, the man is a low life scum who is given more credit than he deserves--just my opinion of the so called man.

blackthroatedwind · #97 01-16-2007, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Face it, the man is a low life scum who is given more credit than he deserves--just my opinion of the so called man.

The internet works well for you I see.

#98 01-16-2007, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The internet works well for you I see.

I would tell that to his face and have many of times.

SentToStud · #99 01-16-2007, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Pick any of his down years and his career is still avg. Face it, the man is a low life scum who is given more credit than he deserves--just my opinion of the so called man.

Before you were sounding trollish or attention seeking.

Now you just sound stupid.

Guy's horses have earned nearly $100 Million and he's in the Hall of Fame.

Won every TC race and, of course, the last two runnings of the FW Hooper (no mean feat!).

Sightseek · #**100** 01-16-2007, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Before you were sounding trollish or attention seeking.

Now you just sound stupid.

Guy's horses have earned nearly $100 Million and he's in the Hall of Fame.

Won every TC race and, of course, the last two runnings of the FW Hooper (no mean feat!).

Is it three consecutive Hooper's with Pies Prospect?