mccain's vp

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Honestly the example you give is hardly typical. These people are screwed not because the rich are keeping them down. They are screwed by living in an extremely expensive area. I just dont what exactly this shows except you better be damn rich to live in Fairfax county

Okay, lets look at the national median household income then and check out the cost of living for a family of four. Are things that much different?

Lets say you cut the sales price down to 300k. Your monthly payment is still going to be 2300 dollars. And remember, the median income will be LESS than my example.

[Rileyoriley]

Originally Posted by pgardn

One option is clearly to move.
That family could make it easy in many places.
Including the stupid, miserly regions of Texas and Arkansas.
They would have no problem living where I live.

Scuds of course thinks San Antonio is akin to Ankara, Turkey.
Having never visited he knows.

Well said "Redneck".

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

No, not at birth.You're up in arms about it, but you are both living in redneck states.You can't escape the backwards economic thinking that white trash have. Look at where that simple thinking white trash Jeff Kent made a beeline for when he went to make home for his family....TEXAS!! You have said repeatedly that it doesn't help the middle class if you redistribute the wealth. Well, we've been doing it a long time. It does strengthen the middleclass. If we didn't do it, you would just see rich and poor. You are all hot n' bothered about taxing your rich doctor friends. So, go the other way and get rid of the taxes on the middle class. That's who needs help in this country. The main reason we have all these problems for the middle class is the rich don't want to pay anybody much. So, they don't, and yet they want a civilized society (somehow,) and so what they refuse to pay in salary and benefits is paid in taxes. You can btch all ya want about it, but if ya didn't have a progressive tax system( the wealth redistribution you say doesn't work,) then this country would be a sh-i-thole.

Oh now wait one moment sir.
Our progressive tax system... you just said rich people
are not willing to pay their fair share. How much more do
you want the wealthy to pay, since it is so bad now?

So I need to know what wealthy is.
And what % of their income they should pay.
Thats all I want.

Hell I would pay a 50% tax rate to live in this country.
I would have no problem with that. I would adjust. Get rid
of a car, etc... But I dont take
major risks to try and build the ecomony like some "rich"
business men that could become very poor in an instant.

BTW about 68% of the taxes I am payed comes from homeowners
in our school area, which is clearly not wealthy. So I, in fact, pay
myself along with my neighbors.
About 29% comes from the State. Supposedly the Lottery.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Yes Zig, neither of you believe in a progressive tax system, and that's(the progressive tax system) the only thing keeping this country from being a total sh-i-thole. You think it's cool to have such a difference between the rich and the middle class. It isn't. Any further separation between the 2 is gunna be very ugly. You don't get that. Never have, and never will. I know that going in(for both of you.) So, on economic stuff I never pay much attention to you two. To me, neither of you will ever comprehend the weaknesses inherent in any free market system. They aren't nearly as much about hard work(which is what you both think they are about) as they are about who has control of the results from hard work. They are flawed systems, and you both seem to think those flaws will work themselves out on their own. They don't. All these things you see done (and you think are unfair to the rich you adore) are just attempts to correct the natural flaws in this economic system. It's a juggling act. If you ignore those flaws, you will have just rich n' poor. If you restrain the system too much, then you'll get poor overall production. The answer, however is not to just do nothing(and allow a flawed system to result in just 2 types of economic classes.) You bother encourage that, and it's ill.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by GPK

This is from your post #996 in this thread

Gross income 9k per month

Car payments= 600 per month.

student loans= 300 per month.

mortgage payment=3500 per month

Credit card debt= zero



lets do the math here GPK. 9k gross means they are taking home about 6000 per month. Debts equal 4500 per month. Now add utitlies, phone, insurance, food, gas, etc.

This is the middle class in our area. What is wrong with this picture?

That $1,500 plus the other $1,300 we deducted from a smaller house/townhome and reducing 1 car payment = $2,800

I have a ton of my contempararies that live in the Northern Va/Washington DC area. I used to travel to that area alot for business, so I have a fairly good idea how the cost of living is up there.

So in essence what you are saying is that the quality of living has actually gone DOWN in this country for most. You are now saying that this family of four has to live in a townhouse and work multiple jobs in order to make it work even though they are educated and skilled.

Again, whats wrong with this picture?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Okay, lets look at the national median household income then and check out the cost of living for a family of four. Are things that much different?

Lets say you cut the sales price down to 300k. Your monthly payment is still going to be 2300 dollars. And remember, the median income will be LESS than my example.

All this talk is making me rethink spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on one year old thoroughbreds...

i gotta go to sleep.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

All this talk is making me rethink spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on one year old thoroughbreds...

i gotta go to sleep.

Goodnight. its been fun.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

So in essence what you are saying is that the quality of living has actually gone DOWN in this country for most. You are now saying that this family of four has to live in a townhouse and work multiple jobs in order to make it work even though they are educated and skilled.

Again, whats wrong with this picture?

I'm not saying that at all. I am just saying that more people need to make an effort to live according to their means. I really don't think that is asking too much. How much did they think they were gonna make being school teachers? And what is wrong with living in a townhouse?

Seriously this family could make it easy here.
Especially if they teach science or math.

We are almost having to pull old drug dealers who
can add out of the ditches and put them in classrooms.

And my neighborhood has one section of nice townhouses.

I get the feeling this family needs to take a step
back and look at the big picture. They are not middle
class in your region. As I would not be.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by GPK

I'm not saying that at all. I am just saying that more people need to make an effort to live according to their means. I really don't think that is asking too much. How much did they think they were gonna make being school teachers? And what is wrong with living in a townhouse?

Nothing is wrong with living in a townhouse. But isnt that a little cramped for a family of four? And how much do you think townhouses go for around here?

Beyond that, your point is that people have to live more within their means. I agree. My point is what is within their means is far less than what it use to be and what it should be in relationship to the growth of our economy and productivity over the last thirty years. And why is that?

Supply side was supposed to mean everyone shared in the wealth and the country as a whole would do better. Can you say that is the case?

[dalakhani]

[quote=pgardn]Seriously this family could make it easy here.
Especially if they teach science or math.

We are almost having to pull old drug dealers who
can add out of the ditches and put them in classrooms.

And my neighborhood has one section of nice townhouses.

I get the feeling this family needs to take a step
back and look at the big picture. They are not middle
class in your region. As I would not be.[/QUOTE]

There...i got you to say it. I know you arent partisan and im not picking on you. But you said exactly what i have been hammering at.

Dual income, college educated with a skill that is vital to the community and they arent middle class. What does that tell you?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Oh now wait one moment sir.
Our progressive tax system... you just said rich people
are not willing to pay their fair share. How much more do
you want the wealthy to pay, since it is so bad now?

No, they aren't willing to pay their fair share. They have to be forced to pay it. I am not saying we have to go over 50%. I have given everyone here an example of where this system is off the tracks, and sucking the blood of the poor and the middle class. That's when the oil companies take 40cents a gallon n' pocket it each time people put gas in their tanks. I am not necessarily saying the price people pay is incredibly out of whack, but they are making 10% profit no matter if costs $2.50 a gallon, or $4.50 a gallon. There is no competition. Not a free market where other companies can cut that profit in half to try to compete. Just suck, suck, suck blood from the poor n' middle class to the tune of 10 bil a quarter per company(regularly.)
Not only that, but they get tax breaks while the rape is occuring. Then , you hear, well stockholders are making money...So, it's not just the oil companies doing good. That's just garbage. The average poor or middle class couple is getting they a-s-s eaten up by these oil companies. It's a flaw in our economic system, and it's been allowed to continue. That's the kind of devastation you and Zig don't understand, and never will. You believe it's a system where ya just work harder and harder and things will work themselves out. They don't. This needs correction. It's a protected monopoly, and it is the way this economic sytem would look all over the country if we didn't have a progressive tax system, and other controls in place.

[Danzig]

[quote=dalakhani]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Seriously this family could make it easy here.
Especially if they teach science or math.

We are almost having to pull old drug dealers who
can add out of the ditches and put them in classrooms.

And my neighborhood has one section of nice townhouses.

I get the feeling this family needs to take a step
back and look at the big picture. They are not middle
class in your region. As I would not be.[/QUOTE]

There...i got you to say it. I know you arent partisan and im not picking on you. But you said exactly what i have been hammering at.

Dual income, college educated with a skill that is vital to the community and they arent middle class. What does that tell you?

your area is far from the norm, very far. as for housing, i know there are nice areas, probably not in fairfax, that they could get into. but perhaps they really want to live in fairfax, that's their choice.
by the same token, two teachers down here are living high on the hog. so, for every example you could give according to one of the most expensive areas in the country, no doubt most of us could give examples of how it's not the case. thing is, some think i have a 'distorted' viewpoint, because i live in arkansas. but i was born and raised in maryland, lived in cali, florida, and even overseas before moving here, to missouri, and then back here. in other words been there, done that. if you've lived only in that area, of course that's all you know-kind of like people who have never left here, they think it's all the same as here-couldn't be further from the truth.

[dalakhani]

[quote=Danzig]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

your area is far from the norm, very far. as for housing, i know there are nice areas, probably not in fairfax, that they could get into. but perhaps they really want to live in fairfax, that's their choice.
by the same token, two teachers down here are living high on the hog. so, for every example you could give according to one of the most expensive areas in the country, no doubt most of us could give examples of how it's not the case. thing is, some think i have a 'distorted' viewpoint, because i live in arkansas. but i was born and raised in maryland, lived in cali, florida, and even overseas before moving here, to missouri, and then back here. in other words been there, done that. if you've lived only in that area, of course that's all you know-kind of like people who have never left here, they think it's all the same as here-couldn't be further from the truth.

I have lived in other areas and im not foolish enough to think that it isnt different in other areas. I realize that our housing prices are an extra burden. But I know that this isnt the only area where the middle class is getting squeezed and i know that there are other challenges that people in other areas face.

The national median household income is about 50k per year. 50k! Less than 20% our population makes over 100k.

So lets do the numbers on the median-50k. The median house price is 196k. Lets do the math for a family of four:

Income = 4166 per month so they take home 3000

PITI- 1500 per month (with all time low interest rates over thirty years)

Utilities- 400 per month

Gas for two cars- 400 per month

Insurance- 100 per month

Food for a family of four- 400 per month

car payment- 250

clothing- 100 per month

entertainment- 100 per month

[Cajungator26]

Obama =

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

It is what it is ...

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Obama =

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

It is what it is ...

And the current administration ISNT socialist?

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

And the current administration ISNT socialist?

And your logic is to continue on with it?

Originally Posted by dalakhani

There...i got you to say it. I know you arent partisan and im not picking on you. But you said exactly what i have been hammering at.

Dual income, college educated with a skill that is vital to the community and they arent middle class. What does that tell you?

I knew when I chose this profession it was not considered to be valued in a way I would be compensated monetarily. Education may be considered vital to you, but to the country as a whole, really only college is funded like it is really important. Junior college salaries stink in this state however.
The avg. US citizen thinks pre college education stinks. And in some states and especially poor urban areas, it really does. Texas just happens to have public schools as good as any private, because public education is funded mostly by the surrounding communities. And some communities are very interested in public education. They pass bonds, etc... for public schools.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

And your logic is to continue on with it?

If you think McCain will be a departure from Bush then you haven't been listening to what he is saying.

The truth, Cajun, is that both guys are soclialists. McCain is going to be the most left wing prez in history if elected. Well...right there with Bush.

Quick edit.

I didnt mean to say "the most left wing prez in history". I meant "the most left wing REPUBLICAN prez in modern history"

Just wanted to clarify.

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

No, they aren't willing to pay their fair share. They have to be forced to pay it. I am not saying we have to go over 50%. I have given everyone here an example of where this system is off the tracks, and sucking the blood of the poor and the middle class. That's when the oil companies take 40cents a gallon n' pocket it each time people put gas in their tanks. I am not necessarily saying the price people pay is incredibly out of whack, but they are making 10% profit no matter if costs $2.50 a gallon, or $4.50 a gallon. There is no competition. Not a free market where other companies can cut that profit in half to try to compete. Just suck, suck, suck blood from the poor n' middle class to the tune of 10 bil a quarter per company(regularly.)
Not only that, but they get tax breaks while the rape is occuring. Then , you hear, well stockholders are making money...So, it's not just the oil companies doing good. That's just garbage. The average poor or middle class couple is getting they a-s-s eaten up by these oil companies. It's a flaw in our economic system, and it's been allowed to continue. That's the kind of devastation you and Zig don't understand, and never will. You believe it's a system where ya just work harder and harder and things will work themselves out. They don't. This needs correction. It's a protected monopoly, and it is the way this economic sytem would look all over the country if we didn't have a progressive tax system, and other controls in place.

Oh cmon. Nobody is willing to freely pay taxes. Everyone thinks they are taxed too much.
And dammit... Oil companies are going to make huge profits because they are dealing with a commodity WE are addicted to. Its just the infrastructure for oil use is so in place its very easy to use.
Just you wait.
If Congress passes that damn bill for tax credits dealing with alternative energy you will see an explosion of new ideas just like with PC's. There are people just waiting to jump on cleaner ways to produce enough energy to shove electrons through wires. We have so much excess wind energy in Texas they have to shut down the turbines because we dont have enough lines to transmit the energy. The new technology is ready to blossom. It needs a governmental shove to catalyze the swing.
People do not realize we are on the cusp of something very good. The best thing that could happen is what Coach Pants wanted. Oil skyrocketing to 200 a barrel. But OPEC understands that when gas went to 4+ bucks/gallon, people stopped consuming. They learned the upper limit at this time. And we see oil prices dropping back down to close to 100/barrel. I suspect production levels will aim to keep it about right there so people will keep on the crack oil addiction.