The Cleveland Sporty Page

[clyde]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Uh Grady Sizemore has never hit better than .290 in any ML season and he has always had a ton of strikeouts. And for your info all thing being equal a guy who hits .260 with 40 HR's is usually more valuable than one who hits .320 with 15.

And here I thought he had missed these last few years because of knee surgery and we find out it wasnt that at all...It was old Grady selling out.

Maybe it was just LeBrons bad advice and the knee thing was a big coverup?

It would take a bozo like you to make me have to appear again.Now I know what poor Dahla Whoneverwouldsendmeadupaphoto went through.

He started out with the promise of being the type of hitter I mentioned.If you look at his record, as the home runs go up...so do the strikeouts and the average goes down.This trend was showing before the injuries.So you missed a few years.He's OK now and if you would read what HC tries to tell you, you might learn something.

I will take the type of player Sizeless could have been over a Pete Incavilia , Adam Dunn, Dave Kingman type ANY DAY.


This....this is why you train ostriches.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by clyde

It would take a bozo like you to make me have to appear again.Now I know what poor Dahla Whoneverwouldsendmeadupaphoto went through.

He started out with the promise of being the type of hitter I mentioned.If you look at his record, as the home runs go up...so do the strikeouts and the average goes down.This trend was showing before the injuries.So you missed a few years.He's OK now and if you would read what HC tries to tell you, you might learn something.

I will take the type of player Sizeless could have been over a Pete Incavilia , Adam Dunn, Dave Kingman type ANY DAY.


This....this is why you train ostriches.

You are delusional and ignore reality.
Sizemore has 4 full ML seasons to examine
2005 .289 .348 .484 in 706 PA with 37 2b, 11 3b, 22hr, 52bb, 132k and 22sb
2006 .290 .375 .533 in 751 PA with 53 2b, 11 3b, 28hr, 78bb, 153k and 22sb
2007 .277 .390 .462 in 748 PA with 34 2b, 05 3b, 24 hr, 101bb, 155k and 33sb
2008 .268 .374 .502 in 745 PA with 39 2b, 05 3b, 33hr, 98bb, 130k and 38sb

What is apparent is that Sizemore was eerily consistent, wasn't developing into anything like Dave Kingman at the plate and of course this ignores the fact he was a Gold Glove defensive player at an important position, CF

His TA (true average) for those years was .290, .305, .294, .304
His VORP (value over replacement player) is 49.2, 69.8, 58.7, 58.0
His WARP (Wins over replacement player) is 4.6, 5.2, 5.9, 5.2

His last full injury free season he had DECREASED his strikeouts by 25 at the same time increasing his HR's by 9

The shame of him getting hurt and not being the same player he was doesn't mean that he wasn't always going to be the type of player that he was in 2008. The guy was what he was, your delusions that he was going to become some Juan Pierre type or that this was a good thing makes your opinion particularly absurd in this case.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You do recall he had microfracture surgery on his knee right? That stealing bases is probably not a great idea for a guy coming back from that?

I've always actually been a big Grady fan, much moreso than clyde...same with LeBron. The guy hustled 115 percent every single day. I always accepted his K's because he walked an absolute ton which kept his OBP very, very high, good for a leadoff guy. The facts are his OBP is down about 80 points this year from what he used to be. That has nothing to do with microfracture surgery. His K's are actually way up from an already high total. I can understand some precaution but a 30-40 SB guy goes to absolute zero?? I think his lack of stolen bases is more he doesn't walk any more and most of his hits are extra base hits so he's hardly ever on first.

He's better than Austin Kearns, but he's not having a good year so far is all. A .300 OBP Grady is not a good Grady. A zero SB Grady is not a good Grady. A Grady that doesn't go all out 100 percent of the time is not a good Grady. I was happy when he came back and even in his present form is better as I said than Kearns, Buck and DUncan who are the other options so he plays, but he's not been very good. Maybe it is his series of injuries that has done it to him, nonetheless he has to improve and get on base a ton more to really help the team. He's trying to pull almost everything.

[horseofcourse]

And I know what his numbers were Cannon, and I wish he were doing those numbers this year. He's not. I mean I could go back and list Hank Aaron's stats in his prime but he ain't gonna hit like that today...he's closing in on 80. Grady's hitting .234 with a .301 OBP, that's flat bad no matter how you slice it. clyde was never a big fan, but I just want the 2004-2008 Grady you listed, he ain't here. His OBP is below the famous Kearns we make fun of and Jack Hannahan who is a tremendous defensive third baseman who eventually got benched for his poor offense. He's got only 17 walks in 231 at bats, that is the big problem, he's swinging at everything and trying to pull everything. He was a 100 walk guy, what's that 17 gonna multiply into?? not nothing close to 100. He has struck out 75 times in those 231 at bats. That would be on pace to way more than the 150 he used to pile up in full seasons, he's way above even his previous high pace.

I liked him a lot, but no matter if you like him or not, he's not the .270 AVG, .370 OBP, 30 HR, 35 SB, 100 walk, 150 K Grady nor anything even close to it this year. You listing his old stats simply pretty much proves our point is all it is doing. If he's not running at will, stealing bases, diving all over the outfield to make up for his poor routes and baby girl throwing arm, what good is he?? He's Ron Kittle this year.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I've always actually been a big Grady fan, much moreso than clyde...same with LeBron. The guy hustled 115 percent every single day. I always accepted his K's because he walked an absolute ton which kept his OBP very, very high, good for a leadoff guy. The facts are his OBP is down about 80 points this year from what he used to be. That has nothing to do with microfracture surgery. His K's are actually way up from an already high total. I can understand some precaution but a 30-40 SB guy goes to absolute zero?? I think his lack of stolen bases is more he doesn't walk any more and most of his hits are extra base hits so he's hardly ever on first.

He's better than Austin Kearns, but he's not having a good year so far is all. A .300 OBP Grady is not a good Grady. A zero SB Grady is not a good Grady. A Grady that doesn't go all out 100 percent of the time is not a good Grady. I was happy when he came back and even in his present form is better as I said than Kearns, Buck and DUncan who are the other options so he plays, but he's not been very good. Maybe it is his series of injuries that has done it to him, nonetheless he has to improve and get on base a ton more to really help the team. He's trying to pull almost everything.

How can you say that this has nothing to do with his surgery? He missed the better part of 2 seasons with a serious knee injury. He obviously won't be the same player he was but acting like he isn't trying anymore is silly. No doubt he is struggling but think about his game before and his game now? Don't you think that he is trying to adjust to the new reality that his legs aren't what they were and perhaps mentally he is pressing?

If you are the manager are you flashing him the steal sign knowing what you know about his knee and knowing that as poorly as he has played that you have far greater chance at holding a precarious division lead with Grady Sizemore in center than another journeyman or prospect that isn't ready?

[clyde]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

How can you say that this has nothing to do with his surgery? He missed the better part of 2 seasons with a serious knee injury. He obviously won't be the same player he was but acting like he isn't trying anymore is silly. No doubt he is struggling but think about his game before and his game now? Don't you think that he is trying to adjust to the new reality that his legs aren't what they were and perhaps mentally he is pressing?

If you are the manager are you flashing him the steal sign knowing what you know about his knee and knowing that as poorly as he has played that you have far greater chance at holding a precarious division lead with Grady Sizemore in center than another journeyman or prospect that isn't ready?

Idiot!!


That's how they got there and built up a huge lead, w/o Sizeless....he comes back and now the team struggles.



God your stupid!

[clyde]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You are delusional and ignore reality.
Sizemore has 4 full ML seasons to examine
2005 .289 .348 .484 in 706 PA with 37 2b, 11 3b, 22hr, 52bb, 132k and 22sb
2006 .290 .375 .533 in 751 PA with 53 2b, 11 3b, 28hr, 78bb, 153k and 22sb
2007 .277 .390 .462 in 748 PA with 34 2b, 05 3b, 24 hr, 101bb, 155k and 33sb
2008 .268 .374 .502 in 745 PA with 39 2b, 05 3b, 33hr, 98bb, 130k and 38sb

What is apparent is that Sizemore was eerily consistent, wasn't developing into anything like Dave Kingman at the plate and of course this ignores the fact he was a Gold Glove defensive player at an important position, CF

His TA (true average) for those years was .290, .305, .294, .304
His VORP (value over replacement player) is 49.2, 69.8, 58.7, 58.0
His WARP (Wins over replacement player) is 4.6, 5.2, 5.9, 5.2

His last full injury free season he had DECREASED his strikeouts by 25 at the same time increasing his HR's by 9

The shame of him getting hurt and not being the same player he was doesn't mean that he wasn't always going to be the type of player that he was in 2008. The guy was what he was, your delusions that he was going to become some Juan Pierre type or that this was a good thing makes your opinion particularly absurd in this case.

I watched him a lot those first 4 years , but I can't give you the noodle films.....you're head's in the sand anyway.

You do point out the average drop so well.

And you hide how many of those strikeouts in the first 2 years were intentional strikeouts.


The guy tried to hit 40 home runs.....you could easily see his approach changed.

He didn't, his average dropped......and he became the next Dunn wannabe.


Stop being so Jewish.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

And I know what his numbers were Cannon, and I wish he were doing those numbers this year. He's not. I mean I could go back and list Hank Aaron's stats in his prime but he ain't gonna hit like that today...he's closing in on 80. Grady's hitting .234 with a .301 OBP, that's flat bad no matter how you slice it. clyde was never a big fan, but I just want the 2004-2008 Grady you listed, he ain't here. His OBP is below the famous Kearns we make fun of and Jack Hannahan who is a tremendous defensive third baseman who eventually got benched for his poor offense. He's got only 17 walks in 231 at bats, that is the big problem, he's swinging at everything and trying to pull everything. He was a 100 walk guy, what's that 17 gonna multiply into?? not nothing close to 100. He has struck out 75 times in those 231 at bats. That would be on pace to way more than the 150 he used to pile up in full seasons, he's way above even his previous high pace.

I liked him a lot, but no matter if you like him or not, he's not the .270 AVG, .370 OBP, 30 HR, 35 SB, 100 walk, 150 K Grady nor anything even close to it this year. You listing his old stats simply pretty much proves our point is all it is doing. If he's not running at will, stealing bases, diving all over the outfield to make up for his poor routes and baby girl throwing arm, what good is he?? He's Ron Kittle this year.

I think you missed the point.
He is obviously not the same player and maybe he never will be. But the idea that he was morphing into a different type of player was not backed up by stats. The idea of Clydes that this was some leadoff, slap hitter who became enamored with HR's isn't backed up by facts. As the evidence shows he struck out less the year he hit more HR's. As you know as players get deeper into their 20's they generally hit for more power naturally. Clyde has a mentally deficient bias against anyone with any real talent because as a hard core Clevelander he desires losing.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by clyde

Idiot!!


That's how they got there and built up a huge lead, w/o Sizeless....he comes back and now the team struggles.



God your stupid!

Yeah he is making Carmona throw balls right down the middle too

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by clyde

I watched him a lot those first 4 years , but I can't give you the noddle films.....you're head's in the sand anyway.

You do point out the average drop so well.

And you hide how many of those strikeouts in the first 2 years were intentional strikeouts.


The guy tried to hit 40 home runs.....you could easily see his approach changed.

He didn't, his average dropped......and he became the next Dunn wannabe.


Stop being so Jewish.

The stats dont lie
The numbers are pretty black and white
just like Grady

[clyde]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I think you missed the point.
He is obviously not the same player and maybe he never will be. But the idea that he was morphing into a different type of player was not backed up by stats. The idea of Clydes that this was some leadoff, slap hitter who became enamored with HR's isn't backed up by facts. As the evidence shows he struck out less the year he hit more HR's. As you know as players get deeper into their 20's they generally hit for more power naturally. Clyde has a mentally deficient bias against anyone with any real talent because as a hard core Clevelander he desires losing.

You are a stat rat..I am a realist.



You are also fat and are beginning to sound like the pig FailyahFailyah.

I'm disgusted with you and your tripe.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The stats dont lie
The numbers are pretty black and white
just like Grady

Good one...and stats almost always lie.

Don't try to tell someone who watched him for those first 4 years...I wasn't watching stats;I was watching him.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yeah he is making Carmona throw balls right down the middle too

Exhausto has been along for the whole ride.



Sizeless wasn't there when the team did so well.


He's there now....when the team blows.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I think you missed the point.
He is obviously not the same player and maybe he never will be. But the idea that he was morphing into a different type of player was not backed up by stats. The idea of Clydes that this was some leadoff, slap hitter who became enamored with HR's isn't backed up by facts. As the evidence shows he struck out less the year he hit more HR's. As you know as players get deeper into their 20's they generally hit for more power naturally. Clyde has a mentally deficient bias against anyone with any real talent because as a hard core Clevelander he desires losing.

Sizeless gives us hour very best chance at this.

[clyde]

Peanut Shell..you are out of your league here.Your stat ridden posts are vomit inducing.



Do you fucl< girls with stats as well?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by clyde

Peanut Shell..you are out of your league here.Your stat ridden posts are vomit inducing.



Do you fucl< girls with stats as well?

You'd be impressed with those numbers

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by clyde

Sizeless gives us hour very best chance at this.

You are dead in the water anyway.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I think you missed the point.
He is obviously not the same player and maybe he never will be. But the idea that he was morphing into a different type of player was not backed up by stats. The idea of Clydes that this was some leadoff, slap hitter who became enamored with HR's isn't backed up by facts. As the evidence shows he struck out less the year he hit more HR's. As you know as players get deeper into their 20's they generally hit for more power naturally. Clyde has a mentally deficient bias against anyone with any real talent because as a hard core Clevelander he desires losing.

What you have said is ok...but that is where you are way, way off base. I think his problem is he is striking out way, way more. The "evidence" is crystal clear in that case. 75 Ks in 231 at bats....that's 150 Ks in 462 at bats, never at any point in his career has he ever struck out at the pace he is K'ing at this year. No, he was never a slap hitter, always hit 20 plus in full time action...but his K frequency is astronomically up and his BB rate astronomically down. From the few games I've been able to see, he's trying to pull more frequently this year...that could be a result of his surgery and fear as he can't get to second any more unless he doubles. IF he were playing a full season this year, he'd have 200 strikeouts and 50 walks.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

What you have said is ok...but that is where you are way, way off base. I think his problem is he is striking out way, way more. The "evidence" is crystal clear in that case. 75 Ks in 231 at bats....that's 150 Ks in 462 at bats, never at any point in his career has he ever struck out at the pace he is K'ing at this year. No, he was never a slap hitter, always hit 20 plus in full time action...but his K frequency is astronomically up and his BB rate astronomically down. From the few games I've been able to see, he's trying to pull more frequently this year...that could be a result of his surgery and fear as he can't get to second any more unless he doubles.

No doubt that he is having a tough time. You have to assume that is because of the injury plus the lost time. There are very few guys who lost close to 2 years that jumped right back to where they were right away. He is really just a shell of himself (shut up clyde) now. But they are paying him a lot of money, need the power in the lineup and what is their other option? They have a DH, so sizemore can't play there and they are paying him too much not to play. Bring up the slap hitter at AAA so he can hit .250 with no power?

[clyde]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

What you have said is ok...but that is where you are way, way off base. I think his problem is he is striking out way, way more. The "evidence" is crystal clear in that case. 75 Ks in 231 at bats....that's 150 Ks in 462 at bats, never at any point in his career has he ever struck out at the pace he is K'ing at this year. No, he was never a slap hitter, always hit 20 plus in full time action...but his K frequency is astronomically up and his BB rate astronomically down. From the few games I've been able to see, he's trying to pull more frequently this year...that could be a result of his surgery and fear as he can't get to second any more unless he doubles. IF he were playing a full season this year, he'd have 200 strikeouts and 50 walks.

Nice work,Lou.




You're killing him with his own gun.