Smarty Jones Classic

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I dont know why you guys are down on this horse. won is first 8 starts including the Kentucky Derby and Preakness. won 7.6 million dollars. only loss was that gut wrenching belmont stakes where he showed as much courage as any horse has recently (besides Barbaro and his fight to live - but that was different). What else was he supposed to do?

Then he was retired, but thats not the horses fault, and it turned out he was actually injured. He brought some good people like John Service and Stewert Elliot some fame and ignited horse racing in PA.

I dont know what more we can ask from that champ. So what if he wasnt burning up tracks with track records and wouldnt be considered the "best of all time". The "best of all time" arguments are garbage anyway. Different things happen every year and there is no point comparing a horse that ran in 2004 to a horse that ran in 1989, 1973 or 1921. Just a waste of time.

Smarty did a lot for horse racing in 2004, he will undoubtedly be inducted into the horsey hall of fame and he is a great story and hopefully will sire some good horses.

The amount of money he won is dramatically skewed by the $5 million bonus....but you knew that.

He will not " undoubtably be inducted " into the Hall of Fame. In fact, he should never be, and most likely will never be. Hell, we have people on this board arguing against Silver Charm, and while I can see both sides, he accomplished basically everything Smarty accomplished....and a whole lot more. To be honest, this is exactly the kind of distortions people have about Smarty Jones that wear me out.

[randallscott35]

How on earth did they have a Breeders Cup at Lone Star?

[Bystander]

I feel like this has been said over and over and over, the Smarty Jones hype generated online and in print was overwhelming, and somewhat nauseating.

I liked the colt, I was a fan, but after a while it was like revisionist history at work, as Santa would ride the Easter Bunny to a ghastly and unfair loss in the Belmont. It's all about perspective. Since Smarty other racing media "stars" have popped up with the same sort of annoying fervor- remember Rocky? Smarty Jones was a neat horse who deserved some media attention, but not the amount of hype that makes a regular race fan cringe. I'll fall off my chair if he's inducted in the Hall of Fame.

Oh, and I dedicate this to Mortimerdexterfoxworthy.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The amount of money he won is dramatically skewed by the $5 million bonus....but you knew that.

He will not " undoubtably be inducted " into the Hall of Fame. In fact, he should never be, and most likely will never be. Hell, we have people on this board arguing against Silver Charm, and while I can see both sides, he accomplished basically everything Smarty accomplished....and a whole lot more. To be honest, this is exactly the kind of distortions people have about Smarty Jones that wear me out.

that 5 mill bonus still counted towards his earnings and was a big accomplishment. yes it dramatically increased his earnings, but Oaklawn laid the deal on the table and Smarty/Service/Elliot went out there and accomplished it.

I guess you and I differ about the HOF, I really believe he will be in there some day. Do you think Barbaro ever has a chance to be in the HOF?

[robfla]

speaking of the HOF - isnt the HOF process awful?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

that 5 mill bonus still counted towards his earnings and was a big accomplishment. yes it dramatically increased his earnings, but Oaklawn laid the deal on the table and Smarty/Service/Elliot went out there and accomplished it.

I guess you and I differ about the HOF, I really believe he will be in there some day. Do you think Barbaro ever has a chance to be in the HOF?

Look, the Hall of Fame has serious credibility issues, and recently has taken steps to change things. I hardly think they want to make themselves a bigger joke now by opening their doors to horses who accomplished little while generating a great deal of hype.

Perhaps Smarty Jones could be given the Mortimerdexterfoxworthy Award for fooling the most people in the shortest period of time.

And, honestly, don't be ridiculous about Barbaro. Seriously, while you are in Saratoga, you need to take a good look at some of the actual accomplishments of horses in the Hall of Fame. These horses you are talking about are laughable in comparison to the deserving names over there.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by robfla

speaking of the HOF - isnt the HOF process awful?

It's much better now that they have made it harder to get in. Whatever led to Mike Smith's induction had to be stopped!

[blackthroatedwind]

And, while we are on the subject, Real Quiet has better credentials for the Hall of Fame than both Smarty Jones and Barbaro.

When do you foresee his induction? How about Charismatic? His are equivalent. War Emblem as well.

[Mortimer]

I 've always felt ,very strongly, that Dollar Bill and Victory Gall.........


...oh there I go again.








I'm sorry ,sir.

It won't happen again.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Look, the Hall of Fame has serious credibility issues, and recently has taken steps to change things. I hardly think they want to make themselves a bigger joke now by opening their doors to horses who accomplished little while generating a great deal of hype.

Perhaps Smarty Jones could be given the Mortimerdexterfoxworthy Award for fooling the most people in the shortest period of time.

And, honestly, don't be ridiculous about Barbaro. Seriously, while you are in Saratoga, you need to take a good look at some of the actual accomplishments of horses in the Hall of Fame. These horses you are talking about are laughable in comparison to the deserving names over there.

I understand your point about the HOF, but with how horse racing has been this decade, every horse is retired once they make it "big time". Do you really think none of these horses will make it into the HOF? They are all accomplishing "little" because they are taken to stud, with a few exceptions like Tiznow. (Lava Man has been accomplishing "a lot" because he's a gelding.. is he HOF worthy.. i dont know). Ghostzapper, Smarty, Afleet Alex, Point Given, etc. all taken to the shed when they could have had the chance to accomplish a lot more. At least Mineshaft ran an amazing 18 times. The game is changing so maybe the HOF requirements will be different.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

And, while we are on the subject, Real Quiet has better credentials for the Hall of Fame than both Smarty Jones and Barbaro.

When do you foresee his induction? How about Charismatic? His are equivalent. War Emblem as well.

Real Quiet, Charismatic and War Emblem were not undefeated heading into the Triple Crown. If you remember, Smarty Jones and Barbaro were the only undefeated winners of the KY Derby since oh whats his name, that good horse back in the 70's? Oh yea, Seattle Slew. And there have only been three other horses to win the KY Derby while undefeated (and I had to look this up) Majestic Prince, Morvich, and Regret. Smarty and Barbaro are in pretty good company.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I think it is a bit much to be comparing either Smarty or Barbaro do those you have mentioned. I understand the point you are making but they aren't in those horses league.

You are correct, because of the other horses' accomplishments after the triple crown. SJ and Barbaro were never able to race after the Triple Crown, so who knows.

Still if you ever see a list naming the undefeated winners of the K Derby, those are the 6 horses on the list. SJ and Barbaro accomplished what they did to deserve being on that list.

Undefeated Derby Winners
2006: Barbaro (6-0)

2004: Smarty Jones (7-0)

1977: Seattle Slew (7-0)

1969: Majestic Prince (8-0)

1922: Morvich (12-0)

1915: Regret (4-0)

http://www.49abcnews.com/news/2006/m...cky_derby_win/

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

You are correct, because of the other horses' accomplishments after the triple crown. SJ and Barbaro were never able to race after the Triple Crown, so who knows.

Still if you ever see a list naming the undefeated winners of the K Derby, those are the 6 horses on the list. SJ and Barbaro accomplished what they did to deserve being on that list.

Undefeated Derby Winners
2006: Barbaro (6-0)

2004: Smarty Jones (7-0)

1977: Seattle Slew (7-0)

1969: Majestic Prince (8-0)

1922: Morvich (12-0)

1915: Regret (4-0)

http://www.49abcnews.com/news/2006/m...cky_derby_win/

The group that Barbaro faced was much much better than the one Smarty faced....Lion Heart? Ughh.

[blackthroatedwind]

You are parading out skewed facts for what reason?

Horses get in the Hall of Fame based on their careers, not what might have been, and Smarty Jones and Barbaro did not have careers worthy of the Hall of Fame or even comparable to the names you are mentioning. The fact that there were some similarities to their race records is irrelevent.

Here is a fact....War Emblem accomplished more in his career than Smarty Jones. Real Quiet accomplished more in his career than Smarty Jones. These are facts. What Smarty might have done had he not been " injured " is merely conjecture. His race record is unworthy of Hall of Fame discussion....much less inclusion.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You are parading out skewed facts for what reason?

Horses get in the Hall of Fame based on their careers, not what might have been, and Smarty Jones and Barbaro did not have careers worthy of the Hall of Fame or even comparable to the names you are mentioning. The fact that there were some similarities to their race records is irrelevent.

Here is a fact....War Emblem accomplished more in his career than Smarty Jones. Real Quiet accomplished more in his career than Smarty Jones. These are facts. What Smarty might have done had he not been " injured " is merely conjecture. His race record is unworthy of Hall of Fame discussion....much less inclusion.

Yeah and it's not like he would've beat Bernardini. Now there is a hof horse.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Yeah and it's not like he would've beat Bernardini. Now there is a hof horse.

His actual accomplishments were greater than Smarty Jones....and he has as much chance of being in the Hall of Fame as Spooky Mulder.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You are parading out skewed facts for what reason?

Horses get in the Hall of Fame based on their careers, not what might have been, and Smarty Jones and Barbaro did not have careers worthy of the Hall of Fame or even comparable to the names you are mentioning. The fact that there were some similarities to their race records is irrelevent.

Here is a fact....War Emblem accomplished more in his career than Smarty Jones. Real Quiet accomplished more in his career than Smarty Jones. These are facts. What Smarty might have done had he not been " injured " is merely conjecture. His race record is unworthy of Hall of Fame discussion....much less inclusion.

He was my introduction into horse racing....

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by GPK

He was my introduction into horse racing....

Yet another reason he belongs in the Hall of Fame.

[randallscott35]

True enough, I love Mineshaft but I know he'll never be in the Hall Of Fame. Doesn't diminish what I thought of him. HOF is simply a title after all.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

His actual accomplishments were greater than Smarty Jones....and he has as much chance of being in the Hall of Fame as Spooky Mulder.

Well....he was sore in the bcc. I think his second place finish was one of the best performances in the history of sport. A tear rolled down my cheek when I watched that magnificent animal labor down the stretch that dreary afternoon at Churchill Downs.

Lucky for me I knew he was a sore horse when I saw him in the paddock while watching the live feed from a 19 inch rca in the grandstand area. Didn't wager a dime on him.