Zayat is Leaving; Baffert hates it

[Riot]

How many graded stakes winners on polytrack have went on to repeat the success on dirt? How many have flopped?

Give us your data!

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

I don't know what you mean when you say, " ... it is not what was advertised."

It was supposed to replace, but behave similarly, to dirt. It does not.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

Give us your data!

No.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

It was supposed to replace, but behave similarly, to dirt. It does not.

Thanks.

[Riot]

How many graded stakes winners on polytrack have went on to repeat the success on dirt? How many have flopped?

Give us your data!

Originally Posted by cmorioles

No.

Then I can't hold the opinion that graded stakes winners on poly are destined to flop on dirt, or have a significan risk of flopping on dirt. My opinion is open to change if anyone posts something here that shows it to be so.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Riot

Give us your data!



Then I can't hold the opinion that graded stakes winners on poly are destined to flop on dirt, or have a significan risk of flopping on dirt. My opinion is open to change if anyone posts something here that shows it to be so.

Dominican? All kidding aside, he seems to be somewhat of a poly specialist.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

It was supposed to replace, but behave similarly, to dirt. It does not.

It was also advertised to be an all weather surface yet has tons of problems in extreme heat or cold. The claims of no maintenance proved to be very untrue as well.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Dominican? All kidding aside, he seems to be somewhat of a poly specialist.

Than Pavarotti & Time Squared must be poly freaks.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Than Pavarotti & Time Squared must be poly freaks.

I don't have the past performances in front of me, but how many of their wins came on artificial surfaces? Weren't all three of Dominican's wins on artificial? I guess he did run OK at Churchill...

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I'd love to know how God and Discreet Cat feel about this surface.....oops!, there I go repeating myself again.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

It was also advertised to be an all weather surface yet has tons of problems in extreme heat or cold. The claims of no maintenance proved to be very untrue as well.

Compared to dirt, it most certainly seems to hold up alot better with less problems - Turfway has proved that in the cold, the track was open on freezing days they couldn't possibly have run on the dirt. The Keeneland Poly training track is open virtually every day all summer and winter - a dirt track couldn't be. It's holding up to the 90-degree, high humidity weather in KY today just fine.

We'll see how it holds up to heat in California. So far Hollywood has with Cushion, we'll have to see how Poly does. I read the manufacturer made the Poly in CA a little different than the Poly in KY.

I've never seen the manufacturers claim any of the artificials to be "no" maintenance. The claims I've seen is less maintenance than dirt. That's certainly true.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I'd love to know how God and Discreet Cat feel about this surface.....oops!, there I go repeating myself again.

Naw, we have to wait and see what The Green Monkey decides!

Hoof up? Or hoof down?

(yeah, and I caught the God joke ... <g>)

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Riot

Compared to dirt, it most certainly seems to hold up alot better with less problems - Turfway has proved that in the cold, the track was open on freezing days they couldn't possibly have run on the dirt. The Keeneland Poly training track is open virtually every day all summer and winter - a dirt track couldn't be. It's holding up to the 90-degree, high humidity weather in KY today just fine.

We'll see how it holds up to heat in California. So far Hollywood has with Cushion, we'll have to see how Poly does. I read the manufacturer made the Poly in CA a little different than the Poly in KY.

I've never seen the manufacturers claim any of the artificials to be "no" maintenance. The claims I've seen is less maintenance than dirt. That's certainly true.

They had major problems at Turfway on days that they could have raced over the surface at Aqueduct. The poly was balling up and sticking in the horses' hooves plus the kickback got dangerous. Hollywood had problems with the wax melting in the heat although that was cushion track rather than Poly.

I have been to Del Mar and prefer the atmosphere to Saratoga too, but that is as a fan. If I was a horse owner I would have all my horses at Saratoga. He shouldn't decide where to keep his horses based on which "atmosphere" he prefers. I wouldn't put a horse on a new surface until atleast one year after it has been installed and the tweaks worked out.

[SentToStud]

All I know is that if ever there was a time for PolyTrack to possibly have a success story, it would be Del Mar. They had plenty of time to put it in and weather is not a factor. I would have expected that with the experience they have had in Kentucky and Toronto they would have been able to make the stuff work at Del Mar however they wanted to. If people say it's training ok in the morning but is too loose in the afternoon, then why the hell won't they put some water on it? If you leave most anything in 80 deg full sun all day, it will deteriorate. The stuff is made, after all, of wax. Who the hell would think it would not go bad in the heat?

[The Bid]

Keeneland and Sumitas

[Riot]

They had major problems at Turfway on days that they could have raced over the surface at Aqueduct.

It only matters to me how the poly at Turfway compares to the dirt that was at Turfway (not Aqueduct). They got alot more racing days. And bigger fields, more mutual handle.

The poly was balling up and sticking in the horses' hooves plus the kickback got dangerous. Hollywood had problems with the wax melting in the heat although that was cushion track rather than Poly.

Those problems were fixed, weren't they?

[The Bid]

They missed days, had horses break down steady in the morning, cancelled training, lied about the track on numours occasions. Whats so good about TWP in the winter? The only shame is they can always fall back on the roads being too bad for the people coming from L'ville to travel. Truth is the track was a total joke, and so is Woodbine in the cold. Del Mar and the rest of the poly will fail in the heat, just give it time. Everyone rushed to put this garbage in once Keeneland got behind it. Before Keeneland was involved the stuff was taboo, suddenly its great when they are peddling it.

No they werent fixed, the horses come over 3 inches taller than they are because it balls up, it kicks back 45 feet and it knocked a horses eye out during a live race.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Riot

It only matters to me how the poly at Turfway compares to the dirt that was at Turfway (not Aqueduct). They got alot more racing days. And bigger fields, more mutual handle.



Those problems were fixed, weren't they?

They could have put in a surface similar to Aqueduct and run in the same cold weather though.

Fixed when the winter ended! We'll see how it goes again this winter.

Just look at the Saratoga track, has there been a single breakdown on the dirt this whole meet? For the price spent on polytrack why couldn't tracks have developed a dirt track similar to Saratoga's that is both safe and true dirt?

[Riot]

They missed days, had horses break down steady in the morning, cancelled training, lied about the track on numours occasions. Whats so good about TWP in the winter? The only shame is they can always fall back on the roads being too bad for the people coming from L'ville to travel.

The days Turfway missed, the roads were indeed closed. They didn't lie about that. I know, I live here. I went up to take photos of Sumwon the second day the interstate was open (side roads still ice covered), and the stable area was still an inch of sheet ice, they threw straw down on the main horse paths so they could get to the open track for training.

The steady breakdowns in the morning - I hadn't read or heard anything about that, you can share if you have specifics.

Del Mar and the rest of the poly will fail in the heat, just give it time.

Time will tell. Australia hasn't yet had a problem, but those are not exactly the same artificial surfaces.