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#101
09-03-2007, 09:14 AM
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#102
09-03-2007, 11:40 AM
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Go for Wand. Any filly that can win a grade one at 7f in 1:21 then come back nine days later and win a grade one at 10f in 2:00 4/5........then later come back to run 9f in 1:45 4/5........as a 3yo filly.......is unique. She beat older mares twice in grade one races and IMO, was on the verge of winning the BC Distaff before going down. Even had she lost, she was going to run Bayakoa to the wire and Bayakoa was another of the really great racemares we've had since 1980.
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The real horses of the year (1986-2020) Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine
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#103
09-03-2007, 12:59 PM
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Princess Rooney would certainly have a strong look if you are talking about a race run at a distance of nine furlongs or further. She ran four times in her career at nine furlongs or further - all in Grade 1 stake races - and she won each time. She was 20-17-2-1 overall in dirt races. There are about a dozen who you could make a good case for in my opinion.
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#105
09-03-2007, 03:14 PM
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Drugs, legal or otherwise, have virtually nothing to do with the genetic makeup of horses. The fact that some horses may have competeted at a higher level because of them means squat in terms of producing horses. Some of the best horses of our generation like Alysheba and Coronado's Quest (neither who would be considered to be "juice" horses) got tremendous books of mares yet were absolute busts at stud. What I do think has led to the "softness" of modern day horses is the proliferation of the blood of Mr. Prospector, Storm Cat, and Danzig. Danzig broke down after 3 starts, Storm Cat was not effective past 2 and Mr. Prospector was strictly a 6 furlong horse. Think about that for a minute and ask yourself why modern day horses who are filled with the blood of those 3 should be durable distance horses? Take a look at the upcoming Keeneland sale and see how many hips you can go without seeing one of those 3 in the pedigree? Consider that on the female side, virtually no filly's with any breeding at all, are not bred despite horrible conformation or other issues. We just correct the foals artificially with surgeries and pass them off as new. Now days you have to take into consideration that graded stake horses are treated as assets instead of racehorses. The reason that this practice is allowed is because the power breeders don't insist on a deep race record as a requirement. As long as a horse has a good pedigree and he has knocked off a couple of big races, he is a prime stallion option. Being that the stud books are in the 100's, the farms that stand stallions don't have to be right nearly as much as the 1st few years of stud fees easily cover the price of the horse. What it really comes down to in this day and age is like most other areas of our society. It is a numbers game and money is the greatest motivator, even over ego. I hate the way the game is played now but being I make a living at it I have to deal with it. It is hard to blame the trainers of the big horses as they are under a lot of pressure not to lose once a horse reaches a certain status. It is just too bad that a billionaire owner has yet to stand up and race and resist the urge to cash out. I guess Stronach bringing back Ghostzapper for one more year, is as close to that as we get (though he was hardly overraced)
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#106
09-03-2007, 04:17 PM
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Whenever I've said that synthetic surfaces are a band-aid for the real problem - the overuse of medications and the chemically gifted move-up trainers who play the game on the edge - you've always disputed this. Take a look at the 3-year-old filly who fatally broke down in the first race ever run over the highly-touted (from a safety standpoint) Tapeta surface.  After Scott Lake claimed this filly, laid her off and did God knows what with her, she comes back and runs six consecutive races with a figure 14-to-20 lengths faster each time.
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#107
09-03-2007, 04:56 PM
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However, I don't follow your logic on this. I never said that drugs weren't a issue in the game. But to blame legal medications like Lasix or bute for diluting the breed is not only silly it is without merit or evidence that is not completely circumstancial. BTW- I'm sure that Lasix, bute or steroids were not the key to the improvement to this horse.
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#108
09-03-2007, 05:45 PM
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Distaff 06 - Round Pond - 100 05 - Pleasant Home - 107 04 - Ashado - 102 03 - Adoaration - 101 02 - Azeri - 111 01 - Unbridled Elaine - 102 00 - Spain - 108 99 - Beautiful Pleasure - 109 98 - Escena - 105 97 - Ajina - 108 96 - Jewel Princess - 114 95 - Inside Information - 119 94 - One Dreamer - 105 93 - Hollywood Wildcat - 108 92 - Paseana - 105 91 - Dance Smartly - 107 90 - Bayakoa - 113 89 - Bayakoa - 115 88 - Personal Ensign - 115 87 - Sacahuista - 106 86 - Lady's Secret - 113 85 - Life's Magic - 110 84 - Princess Rooney - 120 Princess Rooney had a helluva record. There are so many horses like that (Bold N Determined, Genuine Risk etc) with incredible records. I suspect you have the DRF Champions book as well... 
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Farewell to Kings - My horse racing blog which provides fresh insight and commentary on horse racing and handicapping.
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#109
09-03-2007, 08:10 PM
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can't help wondering tho, are todays horses really more fragile? or does the dollar dictate the sparse racing schedule, the early retirement? i think it is partly responsible for the barely double-digit starts for most horses. look back over the years, take man o war for instance. he raced the exact same number of races as secretariat, 50-some years later. both raced only at two and three. both were highly prized in the shed. both retired sound. count fleet, who ran in the forties, smack between the two big reds, raced 21 times as well, the same number as the other two. also retired at three, after the belmont (sound familiar?). dr fager, native dancer and seattle slew ran at four, with doc and native dancer running 22 times, and slew only 17.
the use of drugs is a bone of contention, keeping horses on the track that years ago would not have been, BUT by the same token, miracles of modern science have helped to heal horses that years ago would have been lost. i think many horses are handled with kid gloves these days not so much due to fragility, but due to monetary value. it's no longer a sport, but a business. it's not a matter of who breeds the best horse and proves it on the track, but who can win a fancy race and beat the rush to the shed.
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Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln
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#110
09-04-2007, 07:41 PM
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It's falling apart though.
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#111
09-04-2007, 07:43 PM
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Something beyond hay, oats, water and good honest horsemanship was though.
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#112
09-04-2007, 08:25 PM
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As a sidebar, let me add that there is really only one trainer from the 60's-70's who is still training and doing well. Allen Jerkens. He is one of the few trainers from that era and before who was able to adapt to the modern game and still do well. Of course a lot of them are dead but there are some guys who are in the Hall of Fame who are still training or recently retired who the game just seemed to pass by. Of course I am biased but much of my information on the training of horses in the "good old days" comes from him including how he has changed his methods.
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#113
09-04-2007, 08:31 PM
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#114
09-04-2007, 08:33 PM
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You missed John Veitch
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#115
09-04-2007, 08:49 PM
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Here's something you might not have known....
Bobby Frankel won a share of the Saratoga training title in 1970. "The Chief" didn't win his first of three until the next year. I had to look it up - but I remember hearing about Frankel winning one of those long before I was ever born.
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#116
09-04-2007, 09:16 PM
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#117
09-04-2007, 09:30 PM
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It wasn't in 1970?
That years Horse of the Year, champion 2yo filly, champion 3yo male, champion 3yo filly, champion older mare, champion handicap horse, champion Grass horse and champion steeplechase horse all made at least one start at the four week long '70 Saratoga meet. Only the champion 2yo male and the champion sprinter didn't. The champion 2yo male didn't debut until after Saratoga was finished - and while the champion sprinter didn't run there - she ran there both of the previous two years. I don't see how you can say the meet wasn't that important. That's a lot of action for four weeks.
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#118
09-04-2007, 09:35 PM
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I believe that the "medication" or "drug" topic often becomes the scapegoat of the many ills. Not there is not a drug or medication problem, however it's not the exclusive problematic factor that some make it out to be.
One item that I think is often overlooked beyond the superficial discussions is the "breed" itself. Talk to an expert on breeding and pedigree -- someone like a Bob Fox. The gene pool has been diluted over the course of years, due to a variety of reasons. One could argue Tesio theories all day long, inbred this and outcross that, and so on. However, just by looking at the what has happened in the breeding industry, we can see what has happened to the breed. There are exceptions to rules and rules that are exceptions, however, I think those that argue that the breed, genetically, has not suffered, are turning a blind eye and a deaf ear to certain realities. Eric
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#119
09-04-2007, 09:41 PM
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Huh?
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#120
09-04-2007, 09:58 PM
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Linear Mode
