Is a vote for Sarah..a vote for Todd as well?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You are kidding right? Yeah the jewish vote always goes Republican.

You act as if there is such a thing as "the jewish vote" and you fail to grasp to what I was referring. Furthermore, you act as if every Jew is in favor of our policy toward Israel and the middle east.

The Israel lobby is not made up entirely of Jewish people. As stated, many in the lobby are gentiles...many neo-cons. Yes, republicans.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You dont really believe this do you? The thought that we would be "homies" with the Middle east if it weren't for Isreal is so twisted that I cant believe anyone would believe it.

Umm, Did I ever say we would be "homies" with them if it werent for Isreal?? You're crazy if you think I believe that. I dont believe that for a second and you are putting words in my mouth.

But I do believe, down to the core, the Middle East hates us (and other western countries) for putting the Jews into Isreal after WWII. And they hate us for supporting Isreal so much by giving them tons of money and weapons. That add to that the whole "Allah wants Americans dead thing." and they dont like our lifestyles and culture. and They are basically jealous of us. Its a lot of things, but I feel our major support of Isreal is #1 to them.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You act as if there is such a thing as "the jewish vote" and you fail to grasp to what I was referring. Furthermore, you act as if every Jew is in favor of our policy toward Israel and the middle east.

The Israel lobby is not made up entirely of Jewish people. As stated, many in the lobby are gentiles...many neo-cons. Yes, republicans.

There is such a thing as the Jewish vote and they always vote Democratic. You are so biased that you cant even see the folly of your assertions.

For all those that fail to see the forset through the trees, say we withdrew support for isreal and they became a target for the rest of the ME. How long until they (Isreal) started bombing the **** out of everyone and using nukes against iran and others? Is that a positive? Having ONE govt is that region that we can depend on is bad?

Saying that our policies and partnership with Isreal is based on neocon policy is absurd.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Umm, Did I ever say we would be "homies" with them if it werent for Isreal?? You're crazy if you think I believe that. I dont believe that for a second and you are putting words in my mouth.

But I do believe, down to the core, the Middle East hates us (and other western countries) for putting the Jews into Isreal after WWII. And they hate us for supporting Isreal so much by giving them tons of money and weapons. That add to that the whole "Allah wants Americans dead thing." and they dont like our lifestyles and culture. and They are basically jealous of us. Its a lot of things, but I feel our major support of Isreal is #1 to them.

Please stop...

[dalakhani]

For anyone that really wants to understand the issue, a professor from Harvard along with a professor from Chicago University put together this essay. It is a great read if you have the time:

http://ksgnotes1.harvard.edu/Research/wpaper.nsf/rwp/RWP06-011/$File/rwp_06_011_walt.pdf

Warning: LONG

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There is such a thing as the Jewish vote and they always vote Democratic. You are so biased that you cant even see the folly of your assertions.

For all those that fail to see the forset through the trees, say we withdrew support for isreal and they became a target for the rest of the ME. How long until they (Isreal) started bombing the **** out of everyone and using nukes against iran and others? Is that a positive? Having ONE govt is that region that we can depend on is bad?

Saying that our policies and partnership with Isreal is based on neocon policy is absurd.

That 2% of the population vote? Barely more significant than the Muslim vote. And I believe in 2000 they all voted for Buchanan, not intentionally but that's still what ended up happening.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

For anyone that really wants to understand the issue, a professor from Harvard along with a professor from Chicago University put together this essay. It is a great read if you have the time:

http://ksgnotes1.harvard.edu/Research/wpaper.nsf/rwp/RWP06-011/$File/rwp_06_011_walt.pdf

Warning: LONG

University professors can be insanely biased and without any background on them it is impossible to determine the validity of their arguements.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There is such a thing as the Jewish vote and they always vote Democratic. You are so biased that you cant even see the folly of your assertions.

For all those that fail to see the forset through the trees, say we withdrew support for isreal and they became a target for the rest of the ME. How long until they (Isreal) started bombing the **** out of everyone and using nukes against iran and others? Is that a positive? Having ONE govt is that region that we can depend on is bad?

Saying that our policies and partnership with Isreal is based on neocon policy is absurd.

The fact that you generalize how an entire group of people vote based on religion is not only ignorant but dangerous.

Perhaps you should try to understand the subject before you argue it.

Again, we are talking about the Israel lobby...not Jewish voters. There is a huge difference if you choose to want to understand.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

That 2% of the population vote? Barely more significant than the Muslim vote. And I believe in 2000 they all voted for Buchanan, not intentionally but that's still what ended up happening.

You are kidding too right? They all voted for Buchanon?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Please stop...

"The combination of unwavering U.S. support for Israel and the related effort to spread democracy throughout the region has inflamed Arab and Islamic opinion and jeopardized U.S. security"

Right from the Harvard article. No different from what I said.

Now if you could offer your own opinion or one of your friends in the governments' opinion, instead of just telling me I'm wrong, I'd like to hear it.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You are kidding too right? They all voted for Buchanon?

Yeah, in Florida, the whole butterfly ballot problem. The biggest Jewish counties in Florida wound up with the highest vote totals for Buchanan anywhere. Cause they thought they were voting for Gore and wound up voting for Buchanan.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

The fact that you generalize how an entire group of people vote based on religion is not only ignorant but dangerous.

Perhaps you should try to understand the subject before you argue it.

Again, we are talking about the Israel lobby...not Jewish voters. There is a huge difference if you choose to want to understand.

Ignorant is blaming neocons for every thing that has gone wrong in the modern world. Do we not seperate the black vote and hispanic vote? Or woman voters? Are you reading what you are writing? Perhaps YOU should understand the subject because the Isreal lobby lobbies the PEOPLE IN CHARGE who happen to be Republicans. When Obama is in charge, they will be lobbying to him.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

University professors can be insanely biased and without any background on them it is impossible to determine the validity of their arguements.

The two are highly respected scholars from two of the best insitutions in the world and both are stated philo-semites.

But yet, without reading the essay, you are questioning their credentials and the validity of their arguments.

Another level.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

"The combination of unwavering U.S. support for Israel and the related effort to spread democracy throughout the region has inflamed Arab and Islamic opinion and jeopardized U.S. security"

Right from the Harvard article. No different from what I said.

Now if you could offer your own opinion or one of your friends in the governments' opinion, instead of just telling me I'm wrong, I'd like to hear it.

Harvard article. think for yourself for a change. The despots that rule middle eastern countries use religion to keep the power that they gain. They use US as the reason that the people in those countries are poor. They use US as the bad guys so that the people dont turn their anger against the leaders in their own countries. Bin Laden had no problem partnering with us when it fit his needs. We supported Isreal then too. Be real. Of course the arabs will use our support for Isreal against us to but the fact that places like Saudi arabia which practices the most extreme form of Islam is a US ally because of our protection of them and our buying their oil shows the whole "arabs hate us because of Isreal" falls way down the totem pole.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

The two are highly respected scholars from two of the best insitutions in the world and both are stated philo-semites.

But yet, without reading the essay, you are questioning their credentials and the validity of their arguments.

Another level.

Yeah universities never have radical bents...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Yeah, in Florida, the whole butterfly ballot problem. The biggest Jewish counties in Florida wound up with the highest vote totals for Buchanan anywhere. Cause they thought they were voting for Gore and wound up voting for Buchanan.

So all jews are too stupid to read the ballot? The Jewish population is all centered in a few counties in FL?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So all jews are too stupid to read the ballot? The Jewish population is all centered in a few counties in FL?

Yeah, that's clearly what I said.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Harvard article. think for yourself for a change. The despots that rule middle eastern countries use religion to keep the power that they gain. They use US as the reason that the people in those countries are poor. They use US as the bad guys so that the people dont turn their anger against the leaders in their own countries. Bin Laden had no problem partnering with us when it fit his needs. We supported Isreal then too. Be real. Of course the arabs will use our support for Isreal against us to but the fact that places like Saudi arabia which practices the most extreme form of Islam is a US ally because of our protection of them and our buying their oil shows the whole "arabs hate us because of Isreal" falls way down the totem pole.

I happened to post how I felt about this BEFORE Dala posted the harvard article. Just so happens the harvard article feels pretty similarly to how I feel. Who the fucl< do I think for if not for myself??

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Ignorant is blaming neocons for every thing that has gone wrong in the modern world. Do we not seperate the black vote and hispanic vote? Or woman voters? Are you reading what you are writing? Perhaps YOU should understand the subject because the Isreal lobby lobbies the PEOPLE IN CHARGE who happen to be Republicans. When Obama is in charge, they will be lobbying to him.

You are hopelessly flailing at a subject you don't understand nor care to. Why?

Do you have any idea of who is in the Isreal lobby? Look it up. Educate yourself.

[Mortimer]

Enjoy Bosco.