Islam and the weapon of deception

[hi_im_god]

it's weird to me that so few seem to get this.

it's not that i think murder would disappear if everyone stopped imagining invisible giants were so insecure they needed our constant attention and that we had to kill other people who believed in slightly different invisible giants.

i'm positive we'd still find plenty of reasons to kill each other even if we stopped the whole invisible giant paradigm.

but why do people think it's a belief in THAT invisible giant that's the problem?

as opposed to the problem being that some people are just ass holes? and they'd still be ass holes no matter which invisible giant they believed in?

What if the invisible giant is Andre?

[hi_im_god]

we should burn at the stake all his believer's.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

it's weird to me that so few seem to get this.

it's not that i think murder would disappear if everyone stopped imagining invisible giants were so insecure they needed our constant attention and that we had to kill other people who believed in slightly different invisible giants.

i'm positive we'd still find plenty of reasons to kill each other even if we stopped the whole invisible giant paradigm.

but why do people think it's a belief in THAT invisible giant that's the problem?

as opposed to the problem being that some people are just ass holes? and they'd still be ass holes no matter which invisible giant they believed in?

Well, we can play whatever game you want (to get around the fact that one particular religion believes in killing 1)nonbelievers, and 2)those who want to stop believing,) but I don't believe these people are born ass holes. I believe they are born into an ass-hole religion. If someone seeks this religion out, then they were an ass-hole to begin with. If a woman were to convert to it, they would surely be masochistic.

lulz

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Well, we can play whatever game you want (to get around the fact that one particular religion believes in killing 1)nonbelievers, and 2)those who want to stop believing,) but I don't believe these people are born ass holes. I believe they are born into an ass-hole religion. If someone seeks this religion out, then they were an ass-hole to begin with. If a woman were to convert to it, they would surely be masochistic.

you're a true believer.i think if you were born elsewhere, you'd probably fly a plane into me.

i guess i'm glad you're here where all you do is gas the board.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Differences in language and religion are natural separators of people. Do all religions demand the killing of non-believers, or those people that want to leave the religion? It appears that people want to blame all religions for the problems that Islam presents to those that don't believe in it. Odd to me, because I don't see Buddhism or Hinduism threatening nonbelievers. I just think people in this country are constantly taught toleration, and their way of tolerating Islam is to say all religion is violent(truth is one particular large religion is very violent.)

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

you're a true believer.i think if you were born elsewhere, you'd probably fly a plane into me.

i guess i'm glad you're here where all you do is gas the board.

Yea, you always attack the messenger when you can't stay on the topic. You're giving this religion a pass, because you're taught to be tolerant, but(in this case) you're tolerating a religion that believes in killing those who want to leave it.

[GPK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uwOL4rB-go

[herkhorse]

Road to Peace (2006) Tom Waits

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqhoCj4uFfQ

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Honu

Dont make me out to be that simple ok, I was just stating a fact , you can believe it was just people who happen to be Muslim that tried for years to blow up the World Trade Center and happen to blow up our ship , and they also just happen to be Muslims that have blown up our Embassies and hikacked our planes and killed hundreds of thousands of people.
There is a direct correlation to people of the Muslim faith and terrorism it cant be denied , Im not saying all Muslims are terrorists but it sure doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out the theme to most of the crap that is going on in the world.

Stop saying all Muslims are terrorists!

I dont understand what the big deal is, yes it is a fact that not all muslims are terrorists. It is also a fact that a percentage of muslims are terrorists.
Its is ALSO a fact that the terrorists our country is fighting are muslims, and the people who bombed & flew planes into the WTC and USS Cole, and the US Embessys in Kenya were also Muslim.

They dont use the "Jihad" Muslim word because they are Buddists. (yes Jihad appears frequently in the Quran) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad

There prophit was a pediphile and their Bible (Quran) says if you kill the infidels and martyr yourself you get 71 virgins or whatever in heaven.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Well, I agree very rarely with TIMM, or HONU. On this subject, they happen to be correct. For example, Zig talks about a Christian she knows that uses the "N" word. He's not doing that for religious reasons. He's not doing that in an effort to follow the teachings of his prophet. He's doing it because he's a racist. His prophet encourages him to not follow his racist views. Right? If not for Christianity, he may very well have used violence against races he doesn't like. Now, compare this to the Muslims that do things we don't agree with. Are they following their prophet's teachings when they blow stuff up, and kill people? Yes, they are following his teachings. For some reason people refuse to believe that. They don't do these acts despite what their prophet says. They do it directly because of what their prophet said. You can say I blanket people all you want, but this is the prophet of their religion. Not some side figure that they can take or leave. If you're a Muslim, then you have a killer for a prophet. He was violent. His teachings are violent. We may get lucky, and some Muslims may refuse to follow their prophet's teachings. Fact is, these terrorists are not disobeying their prophet when they kill innocent people that aren't fellow Muslims. When Christians do these bad things you described, they aren't doing it to satisfy their prophet. It's not done for religious reasons. That's simply not the case when Muslims kill innocent people. I understand the KUM-BA-YA stuff on here, but it's based on ignorance of Islam. Zig, that prophet taught them to convert you to Islam. If you refuse, he taught them to kill you. Enough with the paddy-cake bullsht. If someone chooses to follow that Prophet, then they choose to follow a very violent individual. Read what he said. Who would follow that guy? How can you call yourself peace-loving when your prophet taught you to kill non-believers? How can you have respect for women when your prophet tells you to treat them as your farm animals are treated? Sorry, I don't get that. Your views on this subject are a deep stretch. Ours are based on unfortunate facts that you refuse to accept.

best scuds post evah!

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Let me ask you guys something, do you think it's possible for someone to be a muslim and not follow the Quaran word for word? I mean, think of all the Christians in this country. Obviously they all don't follow the Bible word for word. So it's probable that at least a percentage of Muslim's don't follow it word for word. What about these people? Are we just "lucky" as the voice of reason said, or is there really no difference between a muslim terrorist and a terrorist in your eyes?

The Majority of Muslims are peacful. There is a percentage that are not... unfortunatly Muslims have a very large population so that percentage also adds up to a large population.

I feel real bad for the Muslims in this country who are just trying to live there lives and get looked at funny or taunted all the time because they want to cover their head or whatever. It must be tougher in this country to be Muslim than ANYTHING else... black, gay, hispanic, white, ect...

The difference between muslim terrorists and terrorists in my eyes are that these people believe if they blow themselves up and kill a few infidels then they are rewarded with all these virgins in heaven... How are we supposed to fight people who WANT to die so they can get these virgins. I was reading an article on CNN.com a while ago saying that if you are a widow of a martyr that is like the greatest honor. Its a little different when you follow people who say go blow yourself up and you will be rewarded.

Another difference between muslim terrorists and other terrorists is that we are at war with muslim terrorists...

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

The Majority of Muslims are peacful. There is a percentage that are not... unfortunatly Muslims have a very large population so that percentage also adds up to a large population.

I feel real bad for the Muslims in this country who are just trying to live there lives and get looked at funny or taunted all the time because they want to cover their head or whatever. It must be tougher in this country to be Muslim than ANYTHING else... black, gay, hispanic, white, ect...

The difference between muslim terrorists and terrorists in my eyes are that these people believe if they blow themselves up and kill a few infidels then they are rewarded with all these virgins in heaven... How are we supposed to fight people who WANT to die so they can get these virgins. I was reading an article on CNN.com a while ago saying that if you are a widow of a martyr that is like the greatest honor. Its a little different when you follow people who say go blow yourself up and you will be rewarded.

Another difference between muslim terrorists and other terrorists is that we are at war with muslim terrorists...

The bolded group needs to step up and be heard.
If anyone could find a moderate Muslim political group
that is asking for Hamas and Hezbollah to disban and
leave the Israelis alone I would feel a lot more comfortable.

I believe part of the problem is that moderate Muslims fear
retribution if they speak against the terrorists, especially
outside of this country.

It speaks volumes that we can freely debate this problem
as can Israelis. Try this in almost any Arab country or country
with an Islamic led government and you fear for your life.
Where does Salmon Rushdie live again?

[Riot]

Some of the blatent misquotes here about Islamic religion and what the Quran says are so far wrong its unbelievable.

There are different "sects" within Islam, as there are within Christianity. To paint all of Islam (all Muslims) with the broad brush that describes whacko, out-there fringe groups ("religious" terrorists) is wrong.

As wrong as it is to assume all Christians want to kill abortion doctors, blacks, commit Jihad for religious reasons (btw, the concept of "Religious Holy War" originated with Christians, not Muslims).

The Quran describes a religious belief system based upon peace, mercy and forgiveness.

The Quran is insistant that, more than any other religion, believers should be completely tolerant and respectful of other religions, and people who are not Muslim have the same rights and respects as Muslims.

The Quran say that God created all humans equal and free, and one is never to be prejudiced based upon race or color.

The Quran recognizes Jesus as a religious prophet whose teachings are to be followed.

The Quran follows much of the Bible Old Testament.

The Quran says that to commit an act of terrorism is wrong, and is a violation of the basic tenants of Islam (the Five Pillars).

Terrorism is not tolerated within Islam, any more than it is tolerated within Christianity.

The Quran defines jihad as a struggle against evil thoughts, actions, oppression and aggression against person, family, society or country.

"Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not begin aggression. for God loves not aggressors." (Qur'an 2:190)

There is no such thing as an "Islamic Terrorist" in Islam or the Quran.

The promise of 40 virgins in heaven for committing suicide is fiction - it is not in Islam and it is not in the Quran.

Suicide is not permitted in Islam, it is viewed exactly as it is in Christianity - wrong, and it doesn't get you to heaven.

Originally Posted by Riot

The Quran follows much of the Bible Old Testament.

Then the Quran does allow for a lot of smiting and such.
Lots of violence in the Old Testament.

Anyways... thanks for the other stuff.
I had never found the origin of the 40 virgin heaven either.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Some of the blatent misquotes here about Islamic religion and what the Quran says are so far wrong its unbelievable.

There are different "sects" within Islam, as there are within Christianity. To paint all of Islam (all Muslims) with the broad brush that describes whacko, out-there fringe groups ("religious" terrorists) is wrong.

As wrong as it is to assume all Christians want to kill abortion doctors, blacks, commit Jihad for religious reasons (btw, the concept of "Religious Holy War" originated with Christians, not Muslims).

The Quran describes a religious belief system based upon peace, mercy and forgiveness.

The Quran is insistant that, more than any other religion, believers should be completely tolerant and respectful of other religions, and people who are not Muslim have the same rights and respects as Muslims.

The Quran say that God created all humans equal and free, and one is never to be prejudiced based upon race or color.

The Quran recognizes Jesus as a religious prophet whose teachings are to be followed.

The Quran follows much of the Bible Old Testament.

The Quran says that to commit an act of terrorism is wrong, and is a violation of the basic tenants of Islam (the Five Pillars).

Terrorism is not tolerated within Islam, any more than it is tolerated within Christianity.

The Quran defines jihad as a struggle against evil thoughts, actions, oppression and aggression against person, family, society or country.

"Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not begin aggression. for God loves not aggressors." (Qur'an 2:190)

There is no such thing as an "Islamic Terrorist" in Islam or the Quran.

The promise of 40 virgins in heaven for committing suicide is fiction - it is not in Islam and it is not in the Quran.

Suicide is not permitted in Islam, it is viewed exactly as it is in Christianity - wrong, and it doesn't get you to heaven.

However these things are twisted by the radicals to incite fury in the unknowing masses that they wish to control. The terrorists that blow themselves up are not really the ones who deserve the blame, most are poor, uneducated peasants that live shitty lives and are tricked into believing the lies of the leaders because they have very little hope in their own lives. Regardless of what the Quaran or Bible or any other religious document says the intrprtation can be twisted to mean almost anything. As long as corrupt Islamic govts continue to oppress the people and point the finger at the West there will always be a line of poor, misguided souls that are willing to chance it that the next life will be better than the current one.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

However these things are twisted by the radicals to incite fury in the unknowing masses that they wish to control. The terrorists that blow themselves up are not really the ones who deserve the blame, most are poor, uneducated peasants that live shitty lives and are tricked into believing the lies of the leaders because they have very little hope in their own lives. Regardless of what the Quaran or Bible or any other religious document says the intrprtation can be twisted to mean almost anything. As long as corrupt Islamic govts continue to oppress the people and point the finger at the West there will always be a line of poor, misguided souls that are willing to chance it that the next life will be better than the current one.

Point well taken.
Terrorists are easy to produce in
regions where people have no hope.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

However these things are twisted by the radicals to incite fury in the unknowing masses that they wish to control. The terrorists that blow themselves up are not really the ones who deserve the blame, most are poor, uneducated peasants that live shitty lives and are tricked into believing the lies of the leaders because they have very little hope in their own lives. Regardless of what the Quaran or Bible or any other religious document says the intrprtation can be twisted to mean almost anything. As long as corrupt Islamic govts continue to oppress the people and point the finger at the West there will always be a line of poor, misguided souls that are willing to chance it that the next life will be better than the current one.

I agree with all you say.

But the question being discussed here is, do we paint all Muslims in the world (including Muslims who are American citizens) as terrorists out to get us, or not?

Shall we start Muslim concentration camps here in America for our Muslim citizens, as we locked up Americans of Japanese decent in the past?

Originally Posted by Riot

I agree with all you say.

But the question being discussed here is, do we paint all Muslims in the world (including Muslims who are American citizens) as terrorists out to get us, or not?

Shall we start Muslim concentration camps here in America for our Muslim citizens, as we locked up Americans of Japanese decent in the past?

Of course not.
Do you think peaceful Muslims need to
step and be heard? Because they are not
outside of this country. In fact, in this country
I have yet to hear a recognized Islamic group
stand up and condemn Hamas as the current
conflict continues.