Lethal Heat possibly running both days of Breeder's Cup - Page 5

cmorioles · #81 10-14-2009, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

B.) The dam was bred in Denmark (I can't locate it on a map and I didn't even know they run horses there)

Denmark is fabulous, and not just because of the Carlsberg, probably the best beer in the world.

freddymo · #82 10-14-2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Denmark is fabulous, and not just because of the Carlsberg, probably the best beer in the world.

Always nice to see you glow

chucklestheclown · #83 10-14-2009, 02:43 PM

Fascinating. How exactly is it "apples and oranges" to compare running her twice in two days to Lava Man's comeback? The arguments both for and against each situation are exactly the same. But I like the concept of making a mockery of the Breeders' Cup.

Cannon Shell · #84 10-14-2009, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

You ripped Freddymo for doing this, yet you proceeded to do exactly the same.

What are you talking about?

Cannon Shell · #85 10-14-2009, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucklestheclown

Fascinating. How exactly is it "apples and oranges" to compare running her twice in two days to Lava Man's comeback? The arguments both for and against each situation are exactly the same. But I like the concept of making a mockery of the Breeders' Cup.

Because horses that are retired due to soundness issues and returned to training have a far greater probability of injury than a horse who to our knowledge has no such history. She is far more likely to simply race poorly than breakdown.

Since when is racing recency tied to breakdowns?

King Glorious · #86 10-14-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Because horses that are retired due to soundness issues and returned to training have a far greater probability of injury than a horse who to our knowledge has no such history. She is far more likely to simply race poorly than breakdown.

Since when is racing recency tied to breakdowns?

But Left Bank said "WHEN the horse snaps a leg"....not if. So it's not a matter of it could happen but it will happen. Left Bank said so.

They might be different cases but both of them could end up with bad results. Or neither could.

Cannon Shell · #87 10-14-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

But Left Bank said "WHEN the horse snaps a leg"....not if. So it's not a matter of it could happen but it will happen. Left Bank said so.

They might be different cases but both of them could end up with bad results. Or neither could.

Of course they could but a horse with a history of soundness issues coming back at an advanced age is much more likely to be injured than a horse without those same issues at a much younger age.

The common denominator is injury and there is no reason to believe that Lethal Heat is in any more danger to breakdown by running on back to back days while lava Man is certainly more likely to be injured in is comeback.

While I do agree there would be an uproar about LH getting hurt, there will be an uproar about any horse getting hurt. Plus no one knows who she is anyway.

letswastemoney · #88 10-14-2009, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

It is curious that Unusual Heat has not been purchased by another outfit to stand him in Kentucky or elsewhere. I am not jabbing here, just wondering.

He's a goldmine for Abrams. It would take them years to find another Unusual Heat, so why not just keep him?

Cannon Shell · #89 10-14-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

It is curious that Unusual Heat has not been purchased by another outfit to stand him in Kentucky or elsewhere. I am not jabbing here, just wondering.

He is 19 year old

chucklestheclown · #90 10-15-2009, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Of course they could but a horse with a history of soundness issues coming back at an advanced age is much more likely to be injured than a horse without those same issues at a much younger age.

The common denominator is injury and there is no reason to believe that Lethal Heat is in any more danger to breakdown by running on back to back days while lava Man is certainly more likely to be injured in is comeback.
While I do agree there would be an uproar about LH getting hurt, there will be an uproar about any horse getting hurt. Plus no one knows who she is anyway.

I thought you were a trainer. Do you seriously believe that?
Let's just forget the fact that you think Lethal Heat is an unknown compared to Lava Man when it comes to the Peta-People.
If you think they know the difference you are WAY off base.

GBBob · #91 10-15-2009, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucklestheclown

I thought you were a trainer. Do you seriously believe that?
Let's just forget the fact that you think Lethal Heat is an unknown compared to Lava Man when it comes to the Peta-People.
If you think they know the difference you are WAY off base.

If you are strictly talking about the PETA factor, there is no conversation. They will find fault in any situation.

Cannon Shell · #92 10-15-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucklestheclown

I thought you were a trainer. Do you seriously believe that?
Let's just forget the fact that you think Lethal Heat is an unknown compared to Lava Man when it comes to the Peta-People.
If you think they know the difference you are WAY off base.

I believe it because it is true.

SCUDSBROTHER · #93 10-15-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Are you kidding? Unusual Heat is a tremendous stallion.

Yes he is. How else could this mushmouth slob be doing this well with thoroughbreds? I remember him before this sire. He wasn't much. He was a mushmouth slob (of course.) His ways of running the same horse every Friday Night etc. didn't really work with horses sired by other sires. He hit Lotto with this sire. Like he has stated, he bred him to nothing, and got a lot. They might not be world class horses, but they weren't bred to be that. If he gets some top mares, look out. I mean, lets face it, the guy wasn't a great claiming trainer. So, he and his people got tired of that. He, and his people couldn't (or wouldn't) pay what people wanted for decent young horses at sales. So, they decided to have Unusual Heat f every cheap mare they had. They ended up hitting Lotto. He's a really good sire. Maybe he hasn't had the world class horses yet, but they are very tough (both physically and mentally.) Very little of the stuff this trainer makes these horses do would work with horses by other sires. Lethal Heat is as tough a competitor as you'll ever find. She's got a favorite distance, but she's gunna keep trying, regardless. This is all about that sire. One thing I do think is that Lethal Heat was running with at least a 36 Co2 on Saturday. That's the one time she has ever shown a kick going 2 turns. She was especially effervescing, but we have a high threshold out here. Really is amazing that anyone is ever caught alkalizing out here. It's not like they're looking very hard.

cmorioles · #94 10-15-2009, 09:39 PM

I imagine Cannon will want to rethink things now.

Pedigree Ann · #95 10-15-2009, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

B.) The dam was bred in Denmark (I can't locate it on a map and I didn't even know they run horses there)

Too bad for you. As it happens, Unusual Heat's dam was a multiple champion, having won the Oaks in both Sweden and Denmark and beaten the colts to win the Swedish and Danish Derbies and the Danish St. Leger. Yes, in the scheme of things these are at the listed level in Europe, but Rossard(Den) proved she wasn't a fraudulent classic winner by scoring in the Flower Bowl H (G1) in the US.

Quote:

C.) The horse was claimed - was vanned off while winning a claiming race less than 3 weeks later - and eventually became a Cannon Shell adored stallion.

Stymie was claimed, for $1500; he went on to lead the US earnings list until Citation came along. Princequillo was claimed; he went on to become a leading dirt stayer, a top sire, and many-time leading broodmare sire. John Henry was claimed; he went on to win G1 races every year from age 5 to 9. Being claimed is not the mark of Cain. And in this case, we aren't talking cheap claimers, either: Claiming $80K or $125 are what tracks wrote for horses who had gone through all of their allowance conditions already, hardly expecting that somebody was going to put up that kind of cash.

Unusual Heat was a stakes-winning horse at 3 and 4 in Ireland with 2 serious problems; he disliked wet turf courses and he hated The Curragh, where most better races are run in Ireland. He was off for a year between his last race in Ireland and his first in the US, so one must hypothesize that something went amiss with him during that time. Oftentimes horses who come back from illness or injury are not as good as they were beforehand, in case you haven't noticed. But their genes are still the same.

The Indomitable DrugS · #96 10-16-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Too bad for you. As it happens, Unusual Heat's dam was a multiple champion, having won the Oaks in both Sweden and Denmark and beaten the colts to win the Swedish and Danish Derbies and the Danish St. Leger. Yes, in the scheme of things these are at the listed level in Europe, but Rossard(Den) proved she wasn't a fraudulent classic winner by scoring in the Flower Bowl H (G1) in the US.

I knew all of that already. Isn't google swell?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Stymie was claimed, for $1500; he went on to lead the US earnings list until Citation came along. Princequillo was claimed; he went on to become a leading dirt stayer, a top sire, and many-time leading broodmare sire. John Henry was claimed; he went on to win G1 races every year from age 5 to 9.

I know .... but were any of them vanned off less than 3 weeks after being claimed never to race again?

....?

TitanSooner · #97 10-16-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I knew all of that already.

pba1817 · #98 10-16-2009, 03:00 PM

How does this topic get 6 pages of replies...?

chucklestheclown · #99 10-17-2009, 05:11 PM

Poor Golden Man. I hope they retire him off of THAT effort. Of course, he is 7 now.