A Saratoga wrap up, best and worst

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Gander

Its a good thing for me the Pirates Bounty is a mere 23 hours away.
Payback time for old Gander.

heh heh heh heh....

"I'm done until October 7th" Gander at 6:50a.m. this morning on the way to the airport.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Well no, it wasn't worse than Milwaukee. Kent made one stupid mistake in that race. Gomez made 14 or 15 in his ride on Milwaukee. Rupert has an agenda, so dont listen to him so far as GG(you can listen to him on everything else), he has the audacity to say she had no run when clear!! LOL!!!! Well geez, after steadying and being choked 14 or 15 times for 11 panels of a 12 panel race, horses tend not to fire so hot the last 1/8th.

I don't think Desormeaux made a mistake at all. I would take back every time going into the clubhouse turn rather than fight it out head and head on the lead.

With regard to Milwaukee, the horse had a ton of traffic trouble that day. There is no doubt about that. Come-from-behinders get into traffic trouble sometimes. There is no way to avoid it. Gomez drops further back than a lot of the other jockeys. The strategy obviously works well. Look at his win percentage. If you come from dead-last, you can either circle the field and go five-wide or you can try to save ground. If you try to save ground, you will get into trouble sometimes. So Gomez will probably get into a little more trouble than jockeys who won't drop that far back, but so what? It's a winning strategy overall. Who cares if he gets into trouble and blows a race once in while. He makes up for it by winning 4 other races that the other jockeys would have never won on the same horse. It's like complaining about a home-run hitter who struck out 50 times. If he has 40 home-runs and you compare him to a guy with 20 home-runs and 40 strike-outs, I'd rather strike out a few more times if I could hit an extra 20 home-runs.

With regards to Milwaukee, I know Oracle will disagree but I think she was really rank that day. A jockey is going to have no choice but to continuously check if his horse is rank in trafffic.

[Gander]

Stand up and salute the Captain! I've been waiting my whole life to bet this race.

[Gander]

Relaxed Gesture wasnt beating Go Deputy that day with any type of ride but he surely could have held off Gray Whistle for 2nd. Kent D is a very average rider who has his head up his ass. Problem is all these broads chasing him around. Hes got a little following, makes the Backstreet Boys look like your typical degenerate gambling track hanger outer.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Gander

Stand up and salute the Captain! I've been waiting my whole life to bet this race.

Bullsh*t....you have been waiting since Point Ashley kicked you in the nuts last night to bet this race.

Next time we go to the harness track to bet simulcast...I want it to be while they are actually running at the track there too.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Come on Rupert, that ride by Kent D. in the Sword Dancer was awful. It wasn't his first time on the horse, and RG has always struck me as a horse who does his best making one run, ala the Manhatten this year, and Canadian Int'l last year. He didn't take back in the early stages, then wrestled him back 5 furlongs in, I think he took out the fight in the horse by doing it. I think he would have been better off staying with the pace, or taking back at the beginning of the race.

But what do you do if the horse breaks sharper than usual and is keen for the lead? If he stays on the engine and slows down in the stretch, everyone is calling Kent an idiot for not taking back. He was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time with that horse.

Horses like Relaxed Gesture find ways to lose. He will be overbet AGAIN in the next race and he will find another way to lose.

[Gander]

Not going back there ever. Ever. Place is a pit. You wanna go there next time you come up here, be my guest. I'll leave the light on. No way for me.

[Gander]

Horses like Relaxed Gesture find ways to lose. He will be overbet AGAIN in the next race and he will find another way to lose.

Couldnt agree more. This horse is a money burning hanging no good barn animal. I'm sticking with the Tin Man. Hes a real horse.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Gander

Not going back there ever. Ever. Place is a pit. You wanna go there next time you come up here, be my guest. I'll leave the light on. No way for me.

I just don't see what there isn't to like....plenty of secondhand smoke, cardboard style pizza (which taste really good after alot of beer), semi-cold draft beer...

[2MinsToPost]

Originally Posted by GPK

I just don't see what there isn't to like....plenty of secondhand smoke, cardboard style pizza (which taste really good after alot of beer), semi-cold draft beer...

semi cold draft beer

equals

me wanting to upchuck

[2MinsToPost]

Originally Posted by GPK

"I'm done until October 7th" Gander at 6:50a.m. this morning on the way to the airport.

I'm done till I get paid again. I refuse to lie anymore. I am such a loser at times. But I will say this, proclaim it and probably live to regret it, I will cash a Pick 4 sometime soon that pays more then $30 and will cash a Pick 3 that pays more then $3.80 on a dollar. double that face

I will not be playing anyhting this weekend cause my annual trip to Eldora Speedway to partake in the biggest short track event each year is upon me, oh yeah lots of women who are attractive and even have teeth, etc, nevermind


Time to finish up my little project which is cleaning the bathroom

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Gander

Scuds,
Stop acting like an old hen and give me your thoughts on the Pirates Bounty tomorrow. It would be a feather in your cap if you could provide me the winner.

I'll take Sal Gonzalez and Proud Cardenal.Btch ain't gunna hide one on me anymore.If he doesn't fire,so be it.

[Gander]

I have never heard of Proud Cardenal Scuds. Sounds like as good as any. I'll
try him. Thanks.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Come on Rupert, that ride by Kent D. in the Sword Dancer was awful. It wasn't his first time on the horse, and RG has always struck me as a horse who does his best making one run, ala the Manhatten this year, and Canadian Int'l last year. He didn't take back in the early stages, then wrestled him back 5 furlongs in, I think he took out the fight in the horse by doing it. I think he would have been better off staying with the pace, or taking back at the beginning of the race.

I don't think he really tried to go to the lead. There was no pace and he ended up on the lead. That was fine because I believe the horse has gone wire to wire before. Anyway, when someone challenged him for the lead going into the clubhouse turn, he took back and let the other horse have the lead. That was the smart thing to do. It's not as if they were at the 3/8 pole. If someone comes outside of you at the 3/8 pole, they pretty much force your hand. Even if you wanted to wait a little longer before asking your horse, your hand is forced if someone is starting to pass you. It's a totally different story going into the clubhouse turn. It's not too late to take back at that point. If someone else wants the lead, I would let them have it every time. The last thing you want is to go head and head the entire race. You have very little chance if you do that.

Anyway, Relaxed Gesture had no real excuses for the most part. He got into a little traffic trouble on the far turn. That was the only excuse he had. He was not the best horse that day and there was no way he was going to win the race. You guys should stop blaming Desormeaux and admit you bet the wrong horse. I have no problem criticizing a jockey if he makes a mistake and costs his horse the race but that was not the case with Relaxed Gesture.

It's ironic that as well as Victor Espinoza rode yesterday, he actually cost his horse the race in the finale yesterday. I had no action on the race but I did watch it. Victor moved much too soon and opened up at the 3/16 pole only to get run down and lose by less than a length. Now that was a bad ride.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Gander

I have never heard of Proud Cardenal Scuds. Sounds like as good as any. I'll
try him. Thanks.

His last beyer was like a 99 but again that was march of 05. Long layoff and those works are nothing to write home about. If he does win, it would be a case of pure larceny by the trainer. Stranger things have happened I guess but this horse will just have to beat me.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I don't think he really tried to go to the lead. There was no pace and he ended up on the lead. That was fine because I believe the horses has gone wire to wire before. Anyway, when someone challenged him for the lead going into the clubhouse turn, he took back and let the other horse have the lead. That was the smart thing to do. It's not as if they were at the 3/8 pole. If someone comes outside of you at the 3/8 pole, they pretty much force your hand. Even if you wanted to wait a little longer before asking your horse, your hand is forced if someone is starting to pass you. It's a totally different story going into the clubhouse turn. It's not too late to take back at that point. If someone else wants the lead, I would let them have it every time. The last thing you want is to go head and head the entire race. You have very little chance if you do that.

Anyway, Relaxed Gesture had no real excuses for the most part. He got into a little traffic trouble on the far turn. That was the only excuse he had. He was not the best horse that day and there was no way he was going to win the race. You guys should stop blaming Desormeaux and admit you bet the wrong horse. I have no problem criticizing a jockey if he makes a mistake and costs his horse the race but that was not the case with Relaxed Gesture.

It's ironic that as well as Victor Espinoza rode yesterday, he actually cost his horse the race in the finale yesterday. I had no action on the race but I did watch it. Victor moved much too soon and opened up at the 3/16 pole only to get run down and lose by less than a length. Now that was a bad ride.

Rupert i saw it the same way. I honestly dont know what kent could do differently besides winging it out front which would have brought certain doom. At least with what he was doing he was keeping his horse more to a style he was accustomed to. You are right...RG was just not the best horse on that day. Easier to blame the jockey.

[NoCarolinaTony]

Rupert-

Gomez does not move horses up like you think. No Jockey ever does by his or herself. Trainers move up horses and jockeys can lose races with bad decisons, but are NOT the be all end all when choosing who to bet on. Period. Garrett did ride for Pletcher (Circular Quay), Clement, Bin Surror & Godolphin. So he was not getting bad horses and moving them up. He rode many good horses well.

Betting on the Jockey angle in the end is a losing proposition.

NC Tony

[NoCarolinaTony]

Ladbroke It's obvious you don't know SH

It. and you're biased.

NC Tony

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by NoCarolinaTony

Rupert-

Gomez does not move horses up like you think. No Jockey ever does by his or herself. Trainers move up horses and jockeys can lose races with bad decisons, but are NOT the be all end all when choosing who to bet on. Period. Garrett did ride for Pletcher (Circular Quay), Clement, Bin Surror & Godolphin. So he was not getting bad horses and moving them up. He rode many good horses well.

Betting on the Jockey angle in the end is a losing proposition.

NC Tony

In general, I agree with you. At the big tracks, most of the jockeys are decent. If you put any of the top 12 jockeys at Del Mar or Saratoga on the best horse, they are going to win 90% of the time. there isn't any jockey that I won't bet on. In general, I don't really cares who is riding. I just try to bet on the best horse.

In the last 25 years, I've only seen 3 jockeys that actually seem to move some horses way up. Those 3 jocks are Gomez, P Val, and Stevens.

P Val is not as smart as Gomez or Stevens, but horses really seem to run for him. If you have a sprinter that usually goes head and head on the lead with the same horses every race, if you put P Val on the horse, he will probably be able to get clear of the other horses. It's the strangest thing I've ever seen. He can actually get more early speed out of a horse than anyone.

I'm not one to normally talk about jockeys. The only jockey I used to ever talk about was stevens because when he was in his prime, he was by so far the best is was ridiculous. It was like watching Tiger or Michael Jordan or anyone who is dominant in their sport. Gomez is the best jockey I've seen since Stevens. He's almost always in the right spot and he gets more out of a horse than anyone. I normally don't talk about jocks, but this guy is simply in another league. It's so extreme that it's hard not to notice. Its not just a matter of him getting good mounts. Look at his ROI. H's winning on horses at big prices and he does it consistently. Its not a coincidence. He did it last year too. He was winning huge race after huge races on 25-1 shots. He did it on Purge, Taste of Paradise, etc. It's not just a coincidence that these horses move way up for him. It happens over and over and over again. The smart trainers see it. Pletcher and Baffert both know it.

I think if you bet on him blindly in every race at Saratoga, you would have actually made money. That's pretty amazing.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

In general, I agree with you. At the big tracks, most of the jockeys are decent. If you put any of the top 12 jockeys at Del Mar or Saratoga on the best horse, they are going to win 90% of the time. there isn't any jockey that I won't bet on. In general, I don't really cares who is riding. I just try to bet on the best horse.

In the last 25 years, I've only seen 3 jockeys that actually seem to move some horses way up. Those 3 jocks are Gomez, P Val, and Stevens.

P Val is not as smart as Gomez or Stevens, but horses really seem to run for him. If you have a sprinter that usually goes head and head on the lead with the same horses every race, if you put P Val on the horse, he will probably be able to get clear of the other horses. It's the strangest thing I've ever seen. He can actually get more early speed out of a horse than anyone.

I'm not one to normally talk about jockeys. The only jockey I used to ever talk about was stevens because when he was in his prime, he was by so far the best is was ridiculous. It was like watching Tiger or Michael Jordan or anyone who is dominant in their sport. Gomez is the best jockey I've seen since Stevens. He's almost always in the right spot and he gets more out of a horse than anyone. I normally don't talk about jocks, but this guy is simply in another league. It's so extreme that it's hard not to notice. Its not just a matter of him getting good mounts. Look at his ROI. H's winning on horses at big prices and he does it consistently. Its not a coincidence. He did it last year too. He was winning huge race after huge races on 25-1 shots. He did it on Purge, Taste of Paradise, etc. It's not just a coincidence that these horses move way up for him. It happens over and over and over again. The smart trainers see it. Pletcher and Baffert both know it.

I think if you bet on him blindly in every race at Saratoga, you would have actually made money. That's pretty amazing.

Anyone who could get Purge to do that is an angel in my eyes.

That horse was just listless up until Gomez got after that ass and brought him on home. I could actually hear the stallion fee going up when I saw Gomez getting after him through the lane.