Who thinks...

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

If it makes me look wierd to you then so be it. It doesn't hurt my feelings any. I am very determined and will do just about whatever it takes to prove my point because I think that I am right. Give me some solid evidence to prove me wrong in that the government really isn't infringing on our rights and I will listen.

Hmmm ... how about reversing the challenge?

As far as I can determine ... neither you ... nor any of the moonbat leftists ... have provided the name(s) of any American(s) whose rights have been unjustly "infringed" by the Bush administration.

You cite Jose Padilla ... but it's a virtual certainty that he was planning to become a mass murderer. Can you cite any other American ... out of 300,000,000 ... who wasn't planning to become a mass murderer ... and whose rights have been "infringed"?

Your reliance on leftist propaganda outlets like the New York Times and USA Today ... indicates that you are politically claustrophobic. You need to escape that leftist closet ... and expand your horizons. If you have a voracious appetite for political commentary ... try visiting townhall.com ... a site which compiles columns from highly reputable ... and generally scholarly ... right-wing political observers.

Try being a glutton there. If you can't read everything ... try focusing on Dr. Thomas Sowell ... not only his political columns ... but go to the library and read some of his many scholarly books.

Open your eyes and your mind ... there are some real ideas out there which may appeal to you much more than the drivel which emanates from ultraleftist circles.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

When I said, "Where do you come up with this stuff?", I was meaning where do you come up with this stuff about "people being arrested unconsitutionally." They were not arrested unconstitutionally and the articles don't say they were. You say that brand new laws were passed to stop protesters. That may be the case. New laws are passed all the time.

I'll give my opinion on what is unconstitutional. They wanted to open a Wal-Mart in Los Angeles but I believe it was the County Board of Supervisors who wouldn't allow it because the unions were against it. Now that goes against everything this country is all about. To tell someone that they can't open a business? To me that is unconstiutional. How could someone not be allowed to open a business? The "Founding Fathers" would be turning in thier graves over that.

The Founding Fathers would have no problem with the Patriot Act. The government's most important role above anything is to keep us safe from attack. If you look at the pros and the cons of the Patriot Act, the pros far outweigh the cons. You talked about our rights being infringed upon. If you have terrorists blowing up buidings and airplanes all the time, that is a far greater infringement on our liberty than anything that the government has done through the Patriot Act. If we are not safe to get on an airplane, if it is not safe to go to New York city, if it is not safe to go on a train, then we have no freedom at all. If there was no Patriot Act, there would have probably been a few more 9/11 type attacks. People would be scared to death to travel in their own country. Now that would be a great infringement on our civi liberties. When it is too dangerous to even go to a sporting event because of the fear of a terrorist attack, then we have no freedom at all. Thankfully it hasn't gotten to that point. Because of the Patriot Act, we haven't had any more terrorist attacks and people feel relatively safe. You can ask anyone in law enforcement and they will tell you that the Patriot Act is directly responsible for foiling numerous terrorist attacks.

The Constitution is the means to an end. It is not an end in itself. The Constitution is not a suicide pact. Do you have any common sense? Even the Forefathers recognized this and allowed Congress to make ammendments to the Constitution if neccessary. Congress also has the authority to make laws. They passed the Patriot Act and it has not been overturned. If it was unconsitutional, the Supreme Court would have overturned it. It is lucky that you are not in charge because you appear to have no common sense. Luckily for us, the vast majority of our Senators and Congressmen on both sides of the aisle agree with me and that is why the Patriot Act has overwhelming bipartisan support. Just in the last year, it passed the Senate by a vote of 89-11 or something like that. Do you know something that the US Senate doesn't know? What are they missing? They're not missing anything. They get it. You clearly don't get it.

Rupe ... this was a beautifully composed post ... well thought out and very well written.

It's a comfort and pleasure to know that you're out there.

The young ladies on this site ... who have allowed themselves to be unduly influenced by leftist loonies ... will (hopefully) some day look back on this period of their lives and say, "Wow! I was really crazy back then."

And reasoned posts like yours will surely help speed that day.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Jessica, I have a question for you. Are you against being searched at the airport? I mean isn't that against the Constitution? How can they search you? There is no probable cause.

I mean technically you could argue that being searched at the airport is unconstitutional. If you want to go by the letter of the law, being searched at the airport is probably unconsititutional. But nobody with any common sense is going to complain about being searched at the airport. sure it's an inconvenience but it is absolutely neccessary. It would be too dangerous if they didn't search you. The Founding Fathers would have no problem with people being searched at the airport. As I said before, the Constitution is not a sudiced pact. It's not an end in itself. It's a means to an end. When deciding whether or not something is constitutional, the most important thing to ask yourself is whether the spirit of the Constitution has been violated. The sprit of the law is what is important. The letter of the law is not important. That is why it is permissable for them to search you at the airport. Even though you could ague that that being searched at the airport is a violation of the letter of the law of the Cosnstitution, it is not a violation of the spirit of the law. That is what really matters. The same can be said about the Patriot Act.

When they search you at the airport, they're not doing it to get a cheap thrill. They're not doing it to harrass people. They're doing it to protect us.

Rupe ... your premise is wrong here.

It's not unconstitutional for someone to search you before you enter their property. No one has a "right" to enter my house with anything ... weapons, drugs, body odor, fried foods ... that I don't approve of.

Who thinks the current administration has done an excellent job of stopping terrorism?

I don't. I believe they've encouraged muslims to follow the extremist line of thinking.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Its hard to believe that we have as many brainwashed liberals in this country as we do. Its the scariest thing that I have ever seen.
The nazis had great propaganda, but the US media and its large left base has succeeded in brainwashing many folks over the past 30 years.
Its just incredible that people can't see that in a time of war, that what matters is not political parties, but the safety and protection of the United States and its law abiding citizens.
I have to label a complete moron or a terrorist anyone who fears being dragged from their home and taken away to confinement or interrogation.
Does anyone here honestly feel that? Or is it just a way to strike out at Republicans. How many folks do you know who get up and go to work and abide laws that are ever gonna get dragged from their homes?
The liberals are trying very hard right now to use "rights of US Citizens" to cloud and confuse the issue of whats going on. Whats going on is the most dangerous period in the history of the United States. Its a period in which millions of folks are rising each morning and trying to figure out how to destroy us and kill our people.
The founding fathers knew nothing of terrorism, at the time the Constitution was drafted, people still engaged in duels as a means of settling dispute. There was honor among men, and the notion that cowards would attempt to murder innocent people was not even a thought in their minds.
Innovations or adjustments are born of necessity. Its common sense really.
I think that 9/11 didn't really hit home with a lot of people, because they only saw it on tv, like a horror movie. They hadn't ever been to the World Trade Center, and they didn't know anyone who worked there. They havn't seen the destruction.
These folks are not going to quit, they are going to continue to try and kill as many innocent Americans as they can each and every day. It is the toughest job ever given any President and the intelligence agencies to prevent this. The other side only has to succeed one time.
How can any American not understand why things have changed and why its a necessity that they have changed?
Does anyone really believe that the intelligence agencies who are now monitoring emails and phone calls of American citizens are looking to use that info to arrest someone for a non terrorist related offense? The folks charged with these duties go to work each and every day and listen to the intelligence that we have which updates them on the newest suspected plots and then get the joyous task of realizing that if they screw up, thats thousands or even millions could die because they didn't do their jobs correctly.
If most people screw up at work, maybe a project is delayed or a deadline is missed, maybe a sales quota isn't hit. If these guys and gals screw up then people die. Does anyone honestly believe that the people who have this burden are looking to harass innocent Americans or even harass Americans committing small time or even big time crime unless its terrorist related?
Unfortunately, many liberals or gullible folks will not realize the gravity of the situation until the next attack comes and more people die. Until that happens its just a political football to kick around and attempt to win elections with, and its sickening and traitorous.

Bingo!

Oracle80 ... more than just an encyclopedic thoroughbred analyst ... but also a man of brilliant insight and unerring common sense.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Who thinks the current administration has done an excellent job of stopping terrorism?

I don't. I believe they've encouraged muslims to follow the extremist line of thinking.

Bush has dropped the ball, I agree! Clinton and all other Presidents failed before him as well! I don't like the argument that to do anything only increases the number of folks that don't like us and are willing to strap bombs to their chests...I think you have to realize that it takes more than simple hatred to make a "good terrorist" (talk about an oxymoron)...you first must have a feeling of hopelessness and helplessness brought about by generations of poverty and ruthless rule of the powers that be, then you need the religious radicalism that gives those folks hope, if not in this world then the next, and finally...you project all the justifiable anger toward the intended target (that would be us or the Israelis). I realize that the leaders are usually highly educated and often come from filthy rich families...but they don't walk into schools and shopping centers with bombs on their chest!

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Also, here is the article on the two women that taken to jail and strip searched. Read the article and tell me just what they did wrong.

Even though I truncated it here ... I read the entire original post ... and completely failed to see where anyone's civil rights were infringed.

All of the arrests cited were made by Secret Service agents ... or by law enforcement authorities working in conjunction with them. Protecting the U.S President ... and other important office holders ... is a very serious responsibility ... always has been ... and is especially so in these days of terrorism ... regardless of who the president and office holders are.

The Secret Service isn't sacrosanct ... anyone can file a complaint against them ... and some actually do ... but I know of no instance ... and you haven't cited any ... of their agents being penalized or upbraided by any court for infringing on citizens' rights.

When you have a headline which says, "Secret Service Agent Arrested/Fired/Fined For Civil Rights Violation" ... please post it here.

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Bush has dropped the ball, I agree! Clinton and all other Presidents failed before him as well! I don't like the argument that to do anything only increases the number of folks that don't like us and are willing to strap bombs to their chests...I think you have to realize that it takes more than simple hatred to make a "good terrorist" (talk about an oxymoron)...you first must have a feeling of hopelessness and helplessness brought about by generations of poverty and ruthless rule of the powers that be, then you need the religious radicalism that gives those folks hope, if not in this world then the next, and finally...you project all the justifiable anger toward the intended target (that would be us or the Israelis). I realize that the leaders are usually highly educated and often come from filthy rich families...but they don't walk into schools and shopping centers with bombs on their chest!

Here's a tidbit of info that pisses me off about the Clinton administration and the current one...

Richard Clarke produced a strategy paper, presented to Clinton, Sandy Berger and other national security principals on December 20th, 2000, which laid out the following:

Break up al-Qaeda cells and arrest their personnel; systematically attack financial support for terrorist activities; freeze its assets; stop its funding through fake charities; give aid to governments having trouble with al-Qaeda ; scale up covert action in Afghanistan to eliminate the training camps and kill bin Laden himself; build support for the Northern Alliance and put Special Forces on the ground in Afghanistan.

This plan was not implemented, as a senior Cinton aide told Time Magazine, because if it were, Clinton would basically be handing the Bush administration a war when they took office one month later. Instead, they gave the plan to the Bush administration, with Sandy Berger arranging no less than ten full briefings to Condi Rice. The plan was not picked up until post September 11th, 2001, at which point pretty much all of it became national strategy, along with the foundation of the Department of Homeland Security, as per legislation authored by Democratic Senators Lieberman and Cleland some nine months earlier. Of course, Cleland didn't vote for the new Homeland Security department when it was tabled because it came with the provision that the new department's employees were to be stripped of civil service protection. This meant that when he ran against Saxby Chambliss in 2002, Chambliss ran ads claiming Cleland didn't care about national security and promptly beat him.

.................................................. .................................................. ..


**** like that is why I have little faith in our government. They talk a big game, but halfass everything.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Who thinks the current administration has done an excellent job of stopping terrorism?

I don't. I believe they've encouraged muslims to follow the extremist line of thinking.

Ummm ... Pillow ... or should I call you Mr. Pants? ... do you remember the Sherlock Holmes story "The Hound Of The Baskervilles" ... where the solution hinged on a dog that didn't bark?

Well ... what we've had for the past five years ... are terrorists who couldn't strike. They want to ... they really want to murder all of us ... but they haven't ... because they've been stopped.

Has the Bush administration done an excellent job of stopping terrorism?

No ... they've done a PERFECT job ... zero terrorist attacks on Americans ... for five years ... and counting. Is it possible to do better than that?

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Ummm ... Pillow ... or should I call you Mr. Pants? ... do you remember the Sherlock Holmes story "The Hound Of The Baskervilles" ... where the solution hinged on a dog that didn't bark?

Well ... what we've had for the past five years ... are terrorists who couldn't strike. They want to ... they really want to murder all of us ... but they haven't ... because they've been stopped.

Has the Bush administration done an excellent job of stopping terrorism?

No ... they've done a PERFECT job ... zero terrorist attacks on Americans ... for five years ... and counting. Is it possible to do better than that?

Yeah nevermind the July 4th, 2002 murder of two Israelis at LAX by an egyptian gunman. That doesn't count because they weren't american.

Keep up the good work! America **** yeah!!

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Ummm ... Pillow ... or should I call you Mr. Pants? ... do you remember the Sherlock Holmes story "The Hound Of The Baskervilles" ... where the solution hinged on a dog that didn't bark?

Well ... what we've had for the past five years ... are terrorists who couldn't strike. They want to ... they really want to murder all of us ... but they haven't ... because they've been stopped.

Has the Bush administration done an excellent job of stopping terrorism?

No ... they've done a PERFECT job ... zero terrorist attacks on Americans ... for five years ... and counting. Is it possible to do better than that?

The problem BB isn't on the home front, the problem is that we've gained little abroad. I agree that we've opened a very large can of whoop-as-s on Al Queda and greatly reduced their ability to carry out covert operations in America but back to my statements about evil....while we are making their lives a living hell, we are doing little to address the recruitment of new terrorists. There has to be a game plan and it has to be long term and public! We must demand greater freedom for the disadvantaged folks of the region...once they start to have a little hope and see that it was the US who went public and tightened the screws on their leaders, it will be harder to convince them that blowing up schools or crashing planes will make their peoples' lives better. The terrorists of today must be destroyed...not compromised with or reasoned with...destroyed! But at the same time, we must stop the influx of young hopeless folks into their ranks...you don't do that by occupying Iraq or laying in bed with certain Arab despots!

Originally Posted by somerfrost

The problem BB isn't on the home front, the problem is that we've gained little abroad. I agree that we've opened a very large can of whoop-as-s on Al Queda and greatly reduced their ability to carry out covert operations in America but back to my statements about evil....while we are making their lives a living hell, we are doing little to address the recruitment of new terrorists. There has to be a game plan and it has to be long term and public! We must demand greater freedom for the disadvantaged folks of the region...once they start to have a little hope and see that it was the US who went public and tightened the screws on their leaders, it will be harder to convince them that blowing up schools or crashing planes will make their peoples' lives better. The terrorists of today must be destroyed...not compromised with or reasoned with...destroyed! But at the same time, we must stop the influx of young hopeless folks into their ranks...you don't do that by occupying Iraq or laying in bed with certain Arab despots!

Sure ... everything you write is correct ...

... and what better way is there to provide hope for a better life to anyone ... anywhere ... than to promote democracy and capitalism?

Do you know something better than that?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Sure ... everything you write is correct ...

... and what better way is there to provide hope for a better life to anyone ... anywhere ... than to promote democracy and capitalism?

Do you know something better than that?

Yes, like the one we promote in Saudi Arabia. Or the one we promoted in Congo. Right BB? lol

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Yeah nevermind the July 4th, 2002 murder of two Israelis at LAX by an egyptian gunman. That doesn't count because they weren't american.

Keep up the good work! America **** yeah!!

There's a world of difference between common murder by a lone criminal ... and acts of terrorism by organized groups.

The police will never be able to stop crazed drug addicts from murdering their girlfriends ... it's just a tragic flaw of human nature.

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

There's a world of difference between common murder by a lone criminal ... and acts of terrorism by organized groups.

The police will never be able to stop crazed drug addicts from murdering their girlfriends ... it's just a tragic flaw of human nature.

Oh so he's just a regular criminal now? You win. What's the point in trying to prove otherwise?

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Yes, like the one we promote in Saudi Arabia. Or the one we promoted in Congo. Right BB? lol

Or the ones we promoted in Germany, Japan, Italy, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Georgia, Armenia, Turkey, Mongolia, Taiwan, South Korea, The Phillipines, Nicagargua, El Salvador, Chile, Grenada, Slovenia, Croatia, Greece, Macedonia, Israel, Spain, South Africa ... ?

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Sure ... everything you write is correct ...

... and what better way is there to provide hope for a better life to anyone ... anywhere ... than to promote democracy and capitalism?

Do you know something better than that?

I agree about democracy but capitalism has it's flaws...again, I go back to the distribution of wealth...it won't help the poor folks if we substitute some Arab despot for their version of Bill Gates. While they'll be able to vote and have at least a chance to better their standard of living while not living in fear of the knock on the door, the gap between the "haves" and "have nots" will someday have to narrow if we are all to live togther on one planet!

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Rupe ... your premise is wrong here.

It's not unconstitutional for someone to search you before you enter their property. No one has a "right" to enter my house with anything ... weapons, drugs, body odor, fried foods ... that I don't approve of.

You can't compare the airport to your house. The airport is a public place.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Who thinks the current administration has done an excellent job of stopping terrorism?

I don't. I believe they've encouraged muslims to follow the extremist line of thinking.

they've obviously done a good job in preventing terrorism in the US. On the other hand, our going into Iraq has angered a lot of Muslims and this may create more terrorists.

I actually think it's ridiculous that Muslims are angry that we went into Iraq. They should be happy. The people in Iraq were happy. They wanted us to come. Saddam Hussein was terrorizing the people in Iraq. I can understand if Americans are mad that we into Iraq. Americans could argue that it was unnecessary and the cost was too great. But it's absurd for Muslims to be angry. We were helping the people there. We weren't hurting them. The situation there may not be great right now, but that's not our fault. If the Shiites and Sunnis want to kill each other, there's not much we can do about it. You would think that they would want to live in peace but they would rather kill each other.

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I agree about democracy but capitalism has it's flaws...again, I go back to the distribution of wealth...it won't help the poor folks if we substitute some Arab despot for their version of Bill Gates.

Say what?

"We" didn't create Bill Gates ... he created himself ... and governments of capitalist economies don't assign success or failure to anyone.

Bill Gates directly created tens of thousands of jobs ... and indirectly created millions more.

Yeah ... I think having a Bill Gates ... lots of them in fact ... might help the "poor folks" ... don't you?