Oak Tree renames the Lady's Secret the Zenyatta

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by CSC

The point is now...

No, the point is cherry-picking races that suit your argument and ignoring races that don't. That's what every one of your arguments entails. So keep waiting until next year.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

No, the point is cherry-picking races that suit your argument and ignoring races that don't. That's what every one of your arguments entails. So keep waiting until next year.

I'm not sure I am doing anything different than what others are doing, I think I asked which race is looking better now, the Woodward or the Travers? It's a good question when you bring into context of what we are discussing. I'm not sure if we were talking about another horse this be such a big deal. I think it's a worthwhile topic but to mention it you are somehow being dishonest, disingenous, and other not too flattering adjectives I have been called lately.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I
Way to contradict yourself. The Classic was awesome, but the older male division was a joke?

Didn't want to ignore this comment, Summer Bird or any of the other 3 yr old males are not older horses. Obviously the comment didn't include Gio Ponti or the Euro's either. Mostly this 3 yr old crop can be a very good one.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

I think it's a worthwhile topic but to mention it you are somehow being dishonest, disingenous, and other not too flattering adjectives I have been called lately.

To just mention it is not to be dishonest or disingenuous, which is why you'll see plenty of people making those arguments and not getting taken to the woodshed for them...because even if they're making a bad argument, they're doing it in good faith.

To have made about 74 different, terrible, dishonest and disingenuous arguments like you have....is to be dishonest and disingenuous. And lots of what you've been typing for several months isn't even good faith debate, because you change the goalposts, change what matters, and change the criteria whenever it suits you, then get all defensive and sullen when people call you on it and then you act like you're getting the short end of it from all these mean people who just love picking on you.

Dishonest and disingenuous. People just calling it as it happens.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

To just mention it is not to be dishonest or disingenuous, which is why you'll see plenty of people making those arguments and not getting taken to the woodshed for them...because even if they're making a bad argument, they're doing it in good faith.

To have made about 74 different, terrible, dishonest and disingenuous arguments like you have....is to be dishonest and disingenuous. And lots of what you've been typing for several months isn't even good faith debate, because you change the goalposts, change what matters, and change the criteria whenever it suits you, then get all defensive and sullen when people call you on it and then you act like you're getting the short end of it from all these mean people who just love picking on you.

Dishonest and disingenuous. Ever heard of that whole calling a spade a spade thing?

Haven't heard that in awhile. Is it still Politically correct.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by jms62

Haven't heard that in awhile. Is it still Politically correct.

Well, the origin of the saying long predates any negative connotation that had been given to it (even if erroneously given) in more recent times.

But I'll edit it out for the sake of being safe.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Well, the origin of the saying long predates any negative connotation that had been given to it (even if erroneously given) in more recent times.

But I'll edit it out for the sake of being safe.

just jokin.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by jms62

just jokin.

Eh, but I'd rather not have it out there if someone may take it the wrong way. My bleeding heart won't let me keep it there if I run that risk

Lets call a spade a spade and say that there is a troll a troll'n you fools to death.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Lets call a spade a spade and say that there is a troll a troll'n you fools to death.

Eh. You win.

[10 pnt move up]

I read Crist's article today on this...not disagreeing with his points, but I think this is the third or fourth post BC article on Zenyatta and there is a common state

"This is no knock on Zenyatta"

"While Zenyatta is a fine horse, but ....."

"She won the Classic but..."

Every article is written as a counterpoint to what the horse has done. I think its interesting.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by CSC

Yes good work but you should have also mentioned one of the races you cited was only a Grade 3 The El Encino and not it's present grade 2 status to make it excellent work.

Not to mention The La Canada was so good that it was eventually downgraded to a Grade 2, my original point was Zenyatta's BC Distaff, 2 LS's and BC Classic wins are more impressive any way you cut it than LS's Santa Margarita, El Encino, La Canada and BC Distaff wins. I am neither agreeing or disagreeing whether I agree with the name change but when you stack Z's SA record against LS's the decision to recognize her it was a good one. Whether this was the race to do it in is anyone's guess.

However you want to backtrack it...

In the end you proved to know little about Lady's Secret's career, yet had no problem comparing her unfavorably to Zenyatta, which makes anything you say in the matter of little service since your bias is already exposed.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by CSC

I have to make one note, Einstein was blasted in the Classic and still finished a respectable 3rd today, I think this is a testament how good a race the Classic was.

Yes, let's take Einstein's BC Classic at face value as though it was his typical A-game performance, just as Einstein himself took Rip Van Winkle's azz in the face at the 3/16ths pole eliminating from any hope of putting in a run.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I read Crist's article today on this...not disagreeing with his points, but I think this is the third or fourth post BC article on Zenyatta and there is a common state

"This is no knock on Zenyatta"

"While Zenyatta is a fine horse, but ....."

"She won the Classic but..."

Every article is written as a counterpoint to what the horse has done. I think its interesting.

Interesting in the way that people thinking Rachel is HOY don't want to appear to denigrate what a quality horse Zenyatta is so they're trying to put the padding up before somebody comes in swinging over something ridiculous. We were lucky to have either one of them in our lifetimes. Doesn't mean that one's overall 2009 season doesn't come out ahead for its overall strength. It's not a counterpoint to what Zenyatta did, it's a counterpoint to the implication that we don't fully appreciate everything that she is by saying RA's year was worthy of HOY. It's absolutely ridiculous to be down on either horse. It's like asking someone if they'd rather have the wealth of Bill Gates or Warren Buffett. Zenyatta is magic. I still wouldn't give her the trophy over RA.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Interesting in the way that people thinking Rachel is HOY don't want to appear to denigrate what a quality horse Zenyatta is so they're trying to put the padding up before somebody comes in swinging over something ridiculous. We were lucky to have either one of them in our lifetimes. Doesn't mean that one's overall 2009 season doesn't come out ahead for its overall strength. It's not a counterpoint to what Zenyatta did, it's a counterpoint to the implication that we don't fully appreciate everything that she is by saying RA's year was worthy of HOY. It's absolutely ridiculous to be down on either horse. It's like asking someone if they'd rather have the wealth of Bill Gates or Warren Buffett. Zenyatta is magic. I still wouldn't give her the trophy over RA.

I think this is a good post. It might end up RA got horse of the year but Zenyatta gets the better horse label when the career is over.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I think this is a good post. It might end up RA got horse of the year but Zenyatta gets the better horse label when the career is over.

I feel like saying give RA the award, Zenyatta the statute. She's being beatified in California as we speak, how about just finish it off. I'm sure RA will get a similar honor somewhere at some point. They're both getting into the Hall of Fame, who are we kidding? Now if anybody tries to go re-naming, say, the Ruffian or the Personal Ensign after Rachel, so help me I'm gonna go crack some heads together.

As for who the better horse is, racing style just makes that way too hard. They're both extraordinary at what they do. I get more enjoyment out of figuring out what RA has to do to compete with Gallorette in the pantheon. Still not entirely convinced Ruffian was actually a mere mortal so comparing her to anyone is just weird.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Interesting in the way that people thinking Rachel is HOY don't want to appear to denigrate what a quality horse Zenyatta is so they're trying to put the padding up before somebody comes in swinging over something ridiculous. We were lucky to have either one of them in our lifetimes. Doesn't mean that one's overall 2009 season doesn't come out ahead for its overall strength. It's not a counterpoint to what Zenyatta did, it's a counterpoint to the implication that we don't fully appreciate everything that she is by saying RA's year was worthy of HOY. It's absolutely ridiculous to be down on either horse. It's like asking someone if they'd rather have the wealth of Bill Gates or Warren Buffett. Zenyatta is magic. I still wouldn't give her the trophy over RA.

Good post.

[ateamstupid]

In the words of BWS, I wonder how we're going to spin Flashing's two G1 wins since getting steamrolled by RA.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

In the words of BWS, I wonder how we're going to spin Flashing's two G1 wins since getting steamrolled by RA.

And beating the California wonder-horse Stardom Bound to boot.

NT

[Merlinsky]

Someone remind me, how many lengths did RA beat Flashing by? Oops, nevermind, found it. That'd be 31 1/2.