Barbaro (the Champ)

[Danzig]

no, he's not a bad horse. and i certainly know that horses can run a clunker now and then. i hope he comes back well out of it. but coming in second isn't winning for fun, by open lengths, etc....those phrases get tossed out so often when a three year old lights up these boards.

but i've been watching horse racing now for a long, long time, and i know how hard it is for a good three year old to win against older..let alone in a race like the bcc. yeah, flower finished second. good run by him esp considering his gold cup run.

BUT, as i said elsewhere....secretariat, good as he was, and man was he good, won ONCE in three starts against older. it is not that easy, that is the 'realism' in me coming out.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

As a "realist", is Flower Alley really that bad? You guys make me laugh. The horse runs a bad race, and now he is a fraud of some kind. talk about what have you done for me lately. I guess that Travers win last year was bad. Or his second in the BCC. Because those two things are pretty easy to do.

You and I are on the same page DaHoss. No, Flower Alley isn't really all that bad. He is actually a very good horse. I think that he has acquired an injury of some kind that is preventing him from running his best race as I have stated many times before. I don't think he will ever come back to his top running form because of it. Many experts in the game have said that he is most likely finished because of an injury. While I will take their word for it, I hope they are wrong because this is a very promising horse. I got all over people when they called LITF a fraud because it was completely obvious that something was physically amiss with the horse. It is the same thing with Flower Alley.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Not in the case of Smarty Jones and Afleet Alex.

ok...now you bring that up to prove that voting DOESN'T take the whole year into consideration?? which is it?? you just said they did. neither of those ran past june.

i'll give you examples of voters only looking at end of year racing. street cry who lost out because his good runs were in the spring, left bank won a couple later on, and then sadly passed away. azeri--she only won HOY because volponi won the bcc. high chaparral who ran here once all year, in the bc and won top turfer, over the gelding who ran second that day, but had won here all year.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Either way, your point is kind of weak. What difference does it make? Invasor has only won 3 graded stakes this year, does that taint his resume? Discreet cat has zero graded wins, and Henny Hughes has 1. How about them?

how is my point weak? tell me where i'm wrong. i've shown exactly who won what, what is there to dispute?

invasor only won three? ONLY? graded placed in a fourth. and earned all those after dubai, and the dread 'curse', his second there is his only loss ever, he's got a great resume....discreet cat does have a graded win in the uae derby. of the three, DC ran once since march, last friday in an allowance. henny has run twice all year. not sure exactly what kind of resume they even have based on that. a lot of promise shown, a lot of talent. i have no problem praising a horse for what he's done. what's been accomplished.

tell me this, when is the last time i posted that barbaro would have beaten bernadini?? i've made NO comparisons between the two other than their records, which are right there for everyone to see.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

You're right, it's not easy. Don't think anyone said it would be. This is sort of going around in circles. We'll know more Oct. 7th.

lol

hell dahoss, i said two (or was it three?) pages ago that this thread was like a dog chasing it's tail. not going anywhere, but a lot of energy exerted.

thanks for the lively discussion!!

i gotta say, this year has been amazing, and it ain't over yet! there have been some bad, bad things to happen this year...but i think i'm more enthused about every race to come than in some years past.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

[quote=Danzig188]ok...now you bring that up to prove that voting DOESN'T take the whole year into consideration?? which is it?? you just said they did. neither of those ran past june.QUOTE]

Voting does consider the length of the entire year. In those years that Smarty and Alex won the Eclipse Award, they were clearly better than all the other horses that ran. They accomplished more in the spring than any of the other three year olds accomplished throughout the entire year. Alex beat out Flower Alley who didn't have near the resume that Alex did despite the fact that Flower Alley raced all year, and Smarty Jones beat out Birdstone who was also a very good horse winning big races. Still Smarty Jones accomplished more by going on a great win streak. While Birdstone's races were good in the summer, he didn't do very much toward the end of the year. Smarty was great the entire length of his three year old career although it ended prematurely. He and Alex (except in the Rebel due to the lung infection) never ran a bad race unlike Birdstone and Flower Alley (KD derby, losing the Arkansas Derby to Alex by eight lengths, JCGC although he did have a legitimate excuse as well).

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I was with you on LITF as well. Kind of sad to me that if a horse doesn't win every single race they run in, they are somewhat suspect. I don't know, it's hard to be perfect. I know some days I have an off day. I hope I am judged on how I am as a whole, and not on my few bad days.

i remember all the heat alex took after his loss in oaklawn....and then his bounce back. revenge!!

i'm hoping that fog will end up ok...things looked pretty bleak for barbaro there for a while, hopefully he'll turn out ok as well...

lost in the fog was my favorite horse last year...he reminded me of a couple other horses that have always been faves of mine--a family resemblance.

[Danzig]

[quote=kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

ok...now you bring that up to prove that voting DOESN'T take the whole year into consideration?? which is it?? you just said they did. neither of those ran past june.QUOTE]

Voting does consider the length of the entire year. In those years that Smarty and Alex won the Eclipse Award, they were clearly better than all the other horses that ran. They accomplished more in the spring than any of the other three year olds accomplished throughout the entire year. Alex beat out Flower Alley who didn't have near the resume that Alex did despite the fact that Flower Alley raced all year, and Smarty Jones beat out Birdstone who was also a very good horse winning big races. Still Smarty Jones accomplished more by going on a great win streak. While Birdstone's races were good in the summer, he didn't do very much toward the end of the year.

that's all true...but the voters can be a fickle bunch....and we all (most fans do i think) give a lot of weight to a 3 yo beating older, but then tiznow loses to point given after winning the bcc....no way of knowing WHAT they'll do...just ask the two year old afleet alex!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm not trying to discount Invasor at all, I'm saying that it's not a black and white issue. there is a lot of gray area with something like this, so how many graded wins you have is sort of useless. I guess I'm a little off but I don't see how Bernardini doesn't win this award. He will never capture the hearts of people like Barbaro did, but he has been as, if not more impressive when compared to Barbaro.

lol
are we even arguing?? you're saying the same things i've been saying....he is just as impressive. all i'm saying is it isn't over yet, indeed it isn't black and white.

it's bernardinis to win or lose. barbaro can do no more than he has.

one more win and that guy has it. that WOULD set him apart. and bernardini would be a truly deserving winner.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Yeah we are lucky as fans for the year we have had talent wise. I know I am a bit biased about Bernardini because I fell in love with him in the Withers. I was in a box at for the Jim Dandy and Travers, and I got goosebumps both times watching him come home. I think he is the kind of horse that will get people to go to the races, something we need. I can't wait to see him on the 7th.

he's everything you'd want to see in a horse. he's great looking, great moving..he seems the complete package.

javier is a lucky guy.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

No arguing, we are having a intelligent discussion, lol. I agree with what you have said here 100%.

fantastic, i enjoy intelligent conversation....

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm not trying to discount Invasor at all, I'm saying that it's not a black and white issue. there is a lot of gray area with something like this, so how many graded wins you have is sort of useless. I guess I'm a little off but I don't see how Bernardini doesn't win this award. He will never capture the hearts of people like Barbaro did, but he has been as, if not more impressive when compared to Barbaro.

Barbaro has captivated a nation. He is a great horse. The media has really been hyping Bernardini up lately too though. It is a good sign for horse racing. They are calling Bernardini a superstar and a superhorse. I just read an article on the whole Barbaro vs. Bernardini debate in the NY Times. You know, Barbaro captivated a nation because of his heart, courage, and determination through a brillant win streak and a painful, life-threatening mishap. Wouldn't it be great for racing if Bernardini really does become a superhorse with all of the negatively surrounding the sport right now? It would be something postive and warming. Maybe God threw us some heartbreaks because he was finally going to give us HIM...THE NEXT COMING. What if Bernardini really is HIM? I can't imagine seeing a horse run live like those greats that ran in the 1970's. It has been one of my biggest dreams for years and years...to see one on live TV that we could honestly call one of the best that has ever been. To be there in that moment would be priceless. Maybe we are in that moment and we just don't know it yet.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

[quote=Danzig188]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

that's all true...but the voters can be a fickle bunch....and we all (most fans do i think) give a lot of weight to a 3 yo beating older, but then tiznow loses to point given after winning the bcc....no way of knowing WHAT they'll do...just ask the two year old afleet alex!

Alex should have definitely gotten that award!

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i remember all the heat alex took after his loss in oaklawn....and then his bounce back. revenge!!

i'm hoping that fog will end up ok...things looked pretty bleak for barbaro there for a while, hopefully he'll turn out ok as well...

lost in the fog was my favorite horse last year...he reminded me of a couple other horses that have always been faves of mine--a family resemblance.

Foggy and Alex were my two co-favorite horses last year. I loved them both dearly. Foggy got my mother back into the game. For that, I can't thank him enough. He will always have a special place in my heart. I have cried more for Foggy than I even did for Barbaro.

I own a very expensive original painting of Barbaro in which I bought from Pat DeLong this spring after his amazing romp in the Derby. I really thought that HE was our next coming. I didn't even know who Bernardini was at that point. I hope Barbaro pulls through. God knows that I was devastated in the Preakness. As soon as he pulled up, I was balling because I saw just how bad his injury was. Dr. Richardson recently said that his leg looked awesome and had even completely fused in some areas with only a little more fusing left to go in other places. Maybe Bernardini and Barbaro can compete against each other in the shed. Who will produce the first KD winner!?! I hope Barbaro lives to see that.

Here is my painting. Her work is so beautiful and this is a stunning painting in real life. Now, I'll always have a fantastic picture of a great horse and a great rider in a great moment in horse racing. Words do not describe the feeling that this picture gives you. I am very proud of it...

http://www.finalturngallery.com/SmartyJones/barbaorftg

[Danzig]

i saw the latest on barbaro, it's great news and i'm relieved to hear it.

if he gets to cover mares, that's just the cherry on top. yeah, a huge, valuable cherry....but nonetheless. initially i thought he was done, expected sunday morning to see he was gone. he's a rarity, one in a million. not too many could have made it this far...hopefully he's around for years to come. if he can pass on just some of his heart and will, that would be something.

i just hope some of his luck can rub off on lost in the fog.
as long as they're alive and fighting there's hope.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm a lot like you are. I had very similar feelings about this whole situation, like maybe we were dealt that awful blow in the Preakness, because we were going to be rewarded with bernardini. As captivating as he is on TV, I'm telling you he is even more in person. I truly felt like I was watching something special on Saturday, and I had the goosebumps to prove it.

I didn't even know who won the Preakness on Preakness day because of what happened to Barbaro, but when I watched the replay (of course skipping the part where the incident occurred) I was stunned at the wonderful performance that Bernardini put in. At this point and time, Bernardini's performance was being widely over-looked by a concerned/devastated racing community. I really wish I could see Bernardini in person (now, not on Preakness day, all the money in the world wouldn't have made me go to that Preakness). You should feel privileged that you got the opportunity!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Foggy and Alex were my two co-favorite horses last year. I loved them both dearly. Foggy got my mother back into the game. For that, I can't thank him enough. He will always have a special place in my heart. I have cried more for Foggy than I even did for Barbaro.

I own a very expensive original painting of Barbaro in which I bought from Pat DeLong this spring after his amazing romp in the Derby. I really thought that HE was our next coming. I didn't even know who Bernardini was at that point. I hope Barbaro pulls through. God knows that I was devastated in the Preakness. As soon as he pulled up, I was balling because I saw just how bad his injury was. Dr. Richardson recently said that his leg looked awesome and had even completely fused in some areas with only a little more fusing left to go in other places. Maybe Bernardini and Barbaro can compete against each other in the shed. Who will produce the first KD winner!?! I hope Barbaro lives to see that.

Here is my painting. Her work is so beautiful and this is a stunning painting in real life. Now, I'll always have a fantastic picture of a great horse and a great rider in a great moment in horse racing. Words do not describe the feeling that this picture gives you. I am very proud of it...

http://www.finalturngallery.com/SmartyJones/barbaorftg

very nice!!

my favorite all time picture, just seemed to capture so much about horse racing and how exciting it can be....sunday silence and easy goer crossing the wire at the preakness. stride for stride.... it's amazing. not the head on, not completely side by side, it's at an angle so you can see them both well.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

very nice!!

my favorite all time picture, just seemed to capture so much about horse racing and how exciting it can be....sunday silence and easy goer crossing the wire at the preakness. stride for stride.... it's amazing. not the head on, not completely side by side, it's at an angle so you can see them both well.

Thanks, I got lucky enough to stumble across that painting of Barbaro on Ebay. I can't believe that I actually got it. I won't be getting one like that for a long time because my bank needs a long break after that. Check out Pat Delong's other work. It is much better in person. She sells prints, T-shirts of the prints, and totes. You can actually get prints and T-shirts of my painting. Some of her original work may also be for sale. All of her work is beautifully detailed. She is going to become a very big name in the painting industry, at least, when it comes to horses. I also love the painting of Funny Cide and Jose Santos. She has some T-shirts of Man O' War, Barbaro, Ruffian and others for sell right now on Ebay.

I loved Easy Goer and Sunday Silence. That was one of the greatest rivaly's in horse racing ever. That sounds like a really nice picture.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm a lot like you are. I had very similar feelings about this whole situation, like maybe we were dealt that awful blow in the Preakness, because we were going to be rewarded with bernardini. As captivating as he is on TV, I'm telling you he is even more in person. I truly felt like I was watching something special on Saturday, and I had the goosebumps to prove it.

You saw him in person, Da Hoss? Wow, I hope to have the same priviledge on Gold Cup day. I am in awe of this horse - not just for his talent, but because he is the most gorgeous speciman I've ever seen. In addition, he's simply beautiful to watch - what a stride. Seeing Bernardini in the post parade of the Withers really floored me.......I never expected him to look like that. I've heard that the colt looked fresh as a daisy after the Travers - he could probably run 2 miles. How refreshing in this day and age of speed. Plus, he seems very popular with racetrack goers.

I did post after the Jim Dandy that I thought this colt could be a tonic for racing, and I still do. If nothing else, he's certainly stirred things up on racing message boards!

[Cajungator26]

To me, Bernardini looks like a high strung maniac, but that's just me. (Bluegrass Cat does too.) I appreciate the classic thoroughbred appearance and wide set eyes of Barbaro much more so if we're going to be talking about looks. You really can't even compare the two. Barbaro looks the part of a champion IMO.