Luck

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I dont know why people in the racing industry think this show should be promoting all the great things involved with horse racing.

It's just the way it is.

The old-time horse racing press would very commonly write about betting coups and putover situations involving barn money...even in big races.

It would often be written that a horse was either "the medium of a failed betting coup" if the horse with some insider money failed to win ... or it would be called a successful betting coup if the horse won.

There are hundreds and hundreds of examples of this I have seen...and you see a horse called "the medium of a failed betting coup" probably five times for every story about a successful one.

Nowadays, you see a horse like Sassy Image get a flood of obvious barn money from somewhere after a layoff and surgery that went unreported, and it's like taboo to even acknowledge that it happened.

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

It's just the way it is.

The old-time horse racing press would very commonly write about betting coups and putover situations involving barn money...even in big races.

It would often be written that a horse was either "the medium of a failed betting coup" if the horse with some insider money failed to win ... or it would be called a successful betting coup if the horse won.

There are hundreds and hundreds of examples of this I have seen...and you see a horse called "the medium of a failed betting coup" probably five times for every story about a successful one.

Nowadays, you see a horse like Sassy Image get a flood of obvious barn money from somewhere after a layoff and surgery that went unreported, and it's like taboo to even acknowledge that it happened.

The exact same happens in the stock market.They blame "Insider trading" or "Speculators", and fail to realize that it takes an ENORMOUS amount of money to do the things they claim. The crash of 1929 was partially blamed on Jesse Livermore,who did make millions on the crash by shorting the market,but he was not the cause of it.

[Calzone Lord]

I wouldn't compare insider betting in horse racing with the stock market.

I'm not familar with all the rules of the stock market -- but it's perfectly legal in horse racing so long as the connections are betting on their own horse.

Situations involving first-time starters and layoffs are by far the most common situations where inside money might have an edge.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

what a terrible letter from cot campbell. "I'm rich, and they arent showing enough classy, rich people on this HBO horse racing show... if horse racing was really like this, classy, rich people like me wouldnt be involved".

barf.

I dont know why people in the racing industry think this show should be promoting all the great things involved with horse racing. If you want that, make a documentary for PBS.

This show is about suspense and drama. The setting is a race track. I think the characters are awesome. If people think this show was made to save the racing industry, they are delusional.

Excellent post.

If we want to somehow "save" the industry, embracing what we are goes a lot further than pretending it's all puppy dogs and lollipops.

[Many Others]

It was an excellent post - Cot Campbell is getting up there in years, perhaps he really is delusional - and how the hell does he know about the hygiene of Queen Elizabeth and J. Edgar Hoover??? Have known plenty of rich people that stink, literally and figuratively lol..

[mclem0822]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

No Disrespect but you disagree about pacing but then you talk about the characters and stories still being "fleshed out" after 110 minutes. Point given.

Yes I did talk about the characters, directly after asking you for an example of the pacing of the show being bad. Which you have yet to sight? I was pointing out in terms of the characters, I find more than 1 character interesting is all. We can agree to disagree.

I'm actually getting into the character development now, but I don't get the Dustin Hoffman character and his interplay with Farina. He seems to spend the entire time he's on screen gazing into space with a "thousand-mile" stare. I don't get his part of the story.

Will probably stay with it for a few more episodes; I hear it gets better. The pace and sound in the third episode were much improved.


Ocala Mike

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by mclem0822

Yes I did talk about the characters, directly after asking you for an example of the pacing of the show being bad. Which you have yet to sight? I was pointing out in terms of the characters, I find more than 1 character interesting is all. We can agree to disagree.

You missed the point. We are now over 160 minutes into the show and nothing has really happened. Has there been anything dramatic or suspenseful? Any storyline that has developed?

It is a matter of opinion and if you Like the show, then great. I don't think it has been very good thus far but I am holding out hope for improvement.

[-BT-]

i literally can't understand 90% of the things that come out of nick nolte's mouth....it's horrible

-bt-

[tector]

I don't really have any problem with the show, other than the Hoffman storyline. The rest is fine.

Hoffman was a tremendous actor in his day--a day which included the likes of Deniro, Pacino, Nicholson and Hackman, all of whom were incredible in their prime. But none of them have done much of anything of note in 15 to 20 years. Hoffman is flat-out embarrassing in this role.

I have no problem understanding Nolte's dialogue, to the extent I think it is meant to be understood, so I don't know what you you guys are talking about. Turn on the closed captioning if you have an issue (that's what I had to do for my wife for the UK version of Life on Mars).

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by tector

Turn on the closed captioning if you have an issue .

finally did this for episode 3. CC doesn't even understand what Escalante is saying, though it did clear up the grunts and wheezes that spill out of Nolte's character's mouth - which I now find out - apparently masquerade as dialogue.

Really trying to find one redeeming quality of this - Can't agree more that the Hoffman character is about as peculiar, unimaginative, and boring as anything I've ever seen him play. The interplay w/ Farina is cumbersome, awkward, and thoroughly uninteresting.

Apparently whoever this "Mike" character is, he is going to save this show after week 4. I hope so, because the current roster/script is abysmal.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by tector

I don't really have any problem with the show, other than the Hoffman storyline. The rest is fine.

Hoffman was a tremendous actor in his day--a day which included the likes of Deniro, Pacino, Nicholson and Hackman, all of whom were incredible in their prime. But none of them have done much of anything of note in 15 to 20 years. Hoffman is flat-out embarrassing in this role.

I have no problem understanding Nolte's dialogue, to the extent I think it is meant to be understood, so I don't know what you you guys are talking about. Turn on the closed captioning if you have an issue (that's what I had to do for my wife for the UK version of Life on Mars).

While I don't like the Hoffman character/storyline (as of yet), I think you are being a bit harsh. There is nothing wrong with his acting. I do think that the problem is that since we are all racing fans, we are having a serious disconnect with Hoffman and his character because it really hasn't had anything to do with racing up until this point. Obviously I have enjoyed all the other storylines/scenes that revolve around the track.

It does look like it's slowly starting to come together and should continue to get better. The other thing that struck me is how good Gary Stevens has been.

[mclem0822]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You missed the point. We are now over 160 minutes into the show and nothing has really happened. Has there been anything dramatic or suspenseful? Any storyline that has developed?

It is a matter of opinion and if you Like the show, then great. I don't think it has been very good thus far but I am holding out hope for improvement.

Maybe I am nuts, but in my opinion we saw a pretty big happening at the end of the very first show. The P6 hit. The fallout of which for these characters is still unfolding, which to me has been very interesting. But it is a matter of opinion, and I hope it gets better for you.

[richard]

Originally Posted by Many Others

It was an excellent post - Cot Campbell is getting up there in years, perhaps he really is delusional - and how the hell does he know about the hygiene of Queen Elizabeth and J. Edgar Hoover??? Have known plenty of rich people that stink, literally and figuratively lol..

Maybe Cot would like to see Tootsie play Queen Elizabeth in a future episode.

I thought it was stunning when Ace tore the buttons off his shirt in episode 1. There's a lot of rage beneath Ace's cold demeanor.

[mclem0822]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

While I don't like the Hoffman character/storyline (as of yet), I think you are being a bit harsh. There is nothing wrong with his acting. I do think that the problem is that since we are all racing fans, we are having a serious disconnect with Hoffman and his character because it really hasn't had anything to do with racing up until this point. Obviously I have enjoyed all the other storylines/scenes that revolve around the track.

It does look like it's slowly starting to come together and should continue to get better. The other thing that struck me is how good Gary Stevens has been.

To me Hoffman's been fine. Maybe I am wrong, but my sense is that the Ace character has a bit of a temper that may still be revealed. Right now he's reflecting, he putting the pieces in place with this deal, and seems like he has a score to settle in the coming shows. I wanna see how this will play out. I think Gary Stevens has been very good, I thought he had some chops when I saw Seabiscuit, but he's been even better here in my opinion.

[richard]

Yup, Ace is very upset he's a felon. He is very slowly adjusting to life on the outside. Note his subtle attraction to the female TRF rep that gave him her card

[mclem0822]

Originally Posted by richard

Yup, Ace is very upset he's a felon. He is very slowly adjusting to life on the outside. Note his subtle attraction to the female TRF rep that gave him her card

Yes, from the looks of the previews they will be developing a relationship in the coming weeks. It's great to see Joan Allen here, I think she's a great actress whom we have not seen much of as of late for whatever reason. She was great in The Contender from 2000, and this may be one some do not remember. She was in a picture in 2005 called The Upside of Anger that was terrific. Kevin Costner was also good in that film. Hopefully this will be a good role for Joan Allen on Luck, she's very talented.

[Kasept]

Tim Goodman: In Defense Of Difficult Shows
Why HBO's 'Luck' and other series demand patience, effort.

Subcultures are not instantaneously familiar for the obvious reason. For people who haven’t been to the horse track, bet on the ponies or been around that environment, Luck will seem like a foreign world. But hell, trying to figure out the land-rights issue and why Lord and Lady Grantham were going to lose Downton Abbey wasn’t super understandable either.

If investing your time in unfamiliar subjects is too hard for you, if it’s too much of a commitment, then by all means watch network television instead. And stop whining, so the rest of the people who want to be challenged can focus.

So Luck has an indirect comparison to War and Peace.

And now the show gets the label it was screaming for from the beginning:


Pretentious

[TouchOfGrey]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

So Luck has an indirect comparison to War and Peace.

And now the show gets the label it was screaming for from the beginning:


Pretentious

As the article says:

This is not to say that Luck will ever be a masterpiece on those levels. Not at all. The point is that we live in a television culture where every element is either spoon-fed to us for easy digestion or hammered upon our heads like we were idiots. Even very good shows on network television do this.

I happen to agree.