Borel off Bird for Rachel in Preakness - Page 8

sdjcom · #**141** 05-07-2009, 06:35 PM

Well they sell the horse out from under him, he has a shot to win triple crown(yes i said a shot not sure thing). MTB people trusted in him and he got another Derby under his belt, A triple Crown Bid and he sells out the Bird people, i'm disappointed he didn't stick by his guns and stay on Bird. The filly is great but it's a matter of principle. Has any jockey in history come off a horse by choice who was alive for TC? Borel will live to regret this no matter how many he wins with RA. Cheap shot by him, but i know it's a business, but TC try means more to me than riding a Super Filly. He may never get another shot @ TC and besides, those two derby rides he won i think he's no better than many other jockeys. Calvin Borel no class and a sell-out imo.

Rupert Pupkin · #**142** 05-07-2009, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Agree. See my avatar, for example.

Injuries happen all the time. It may be tempting to attribute an injury to a training decision, but I don't think that conclusion would bear up under any rigorous scrutiny. IWR was looking great in training leading up to the Derby, according to Mike Welch. The Pamplemousse and Quality Road also missed the Derby due to injuries, as did Midshipman and Vineyard Haven. Did all of those horses race too much?

Was Rachel Alexandra's Oaks run all that much more exerting than a workout?

--Dunbar

In this case, I agree with you. RA's Oaks win wasn't much more than a workout. I don't think she will have any problem coming back in 15 dyas.

But in general, the harder and more often that horses run, the more likely it is that they will get hurt. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. If you had a really good horse and that horse never raced but instead just breezed 6 furlongs in 1:14 every 7 days, there is a good chance that the horse would never get hurt and would stay sound for years. It obviously would not make sense to do that. A horse can't make you any money by not racing. So you obviously need to run your horse, but you want to do evrything you can to keep them sound. If you run them too often, you have no chance of keeping them sound. You don't want to be greedy and kill the golden-goose.

2Hot4TV · #**143** 05-07-2009, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdjcom

Well they sell the horse out from under him, he has a shot to win triple crown(yes i said a shot not sure thing). MTB people trusted in him and he got another Derby under his belt, A triple Crown Bid and he sells out the Bird people, i'm disappointed he didn't stick by his guns and stay on Bird. The filly is great but it's a matter of principle. Has any jockey in history come off a horse by choice who was alive for TC? Borel will live to regret this no matter how many he wins with RA. Cheap shot by him, but i know it's a business, but TC try means more to me than riding a Super Filly. He may never get another shot @ TC and besides, those two derby rides he won i think he's no better than many other jockeys. Calvin Borel no class and a sell-out imo.

Really , so what is your point.

sdjcom · #**144** 05-07-2009, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Just curious, say Rachel goes on to win the Preakness. You still think Borel will regret the decision?

not right away,because the money and hoopla around him will keep him on a natural high, but deep inside he know's doing this to people who seeked you out and trusted their plans in you, and to give up a TC bid? If RA wins preakness then so what, she is expected to and no big deal. What happens if she loses and MTD pulls it off, he will never live it down and will be know more for that mistake. A loss trying for TC is better than a win or loss on RA.

sdjcom · #**145** 05-07-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

Really , so what is your point.

If you can't see my point he has more to lose giving up aTC bid than riding RA, what happens if MTB pulls it off? Borel will be a laughing stock, if he loses on MTB then people will say he keeps his word and can be counted on, imo it's a matter of principle.

Rupert Pupkin · #**146** 05-07-2009, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdjcom

Well they sell the horse out from under him, he has a shot to win triple crown(yes i said a shot not sure thing). MTB people trusted in him and he got another Derby under his belt, A triple Crown Bid and he sells out the Bird people, i'm disappointed he didn't stick by his guns and stay on Bird. The filly is great but it's a matter of principle. Has any jockey in history come off a horse by choice who was alive for TC? Borel will live to regret this no matter how many he wins with RA. Cheap shot by him, but i know it's a business, but TC try means more to me than riding a Super Filly. He may never get another shot @ TC and besides, those two derby rides he won i think he's no better than many other jockeys. Calvin Borel no class and a sell-out imo.

I could make the exact opposite argument. He's been riding the filly all along. He's been on her for the past 6 months. He's ridden her 5 times. He picked up the mount on MTB at the last minute and he's ridden him only once. Why would CB have more loyalty to MTB than RA? RA has been his mount for 6 months. He should stick with RA.

gales0678 · #**147** 05-07-2009, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

A loss trying for the triple crown on an animal he feels is inferior is better than a win in the same race? Isn't the goal to win the race? Rachel winning the Preakness would be no big deal? How many fillies have won the race?

Jockeys riding different horses happens everyday. You act like he's been on Mine That Bird since a 2 year old. he rode him one race. This is a business plain and simple. Maybe riding for Rachel for Asmussen gets him more mounts in the future for Asmussen. Should Casey Lambert be upset the connections of Mine That Bird chose Borel over him in the Derby?

da hoss when was the last time the derby winner didn't have his winning jock on him in the preakness?

King Glorious · #**148** 05-07-2009, 06:59 PM

How about if Mine that Bird wins the Preakness and Rachel doesn't run back in the Belmont. Would you consider riding Borel back in the Belmont or stick with the winning Preakness rider? Or try to really make a footnote in history and be the first TC winner with three different riders lol?

King Glorious · #**149** 05-07-2009, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gales0678

da hoss when was the last time the derby winner didn't have his winning jock on him in the preakness?

I read it was 1945 and Hoop Jr.

gales0678 · #**150** 05-07-2009, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

How about if Mine that Bird wins the Preakness and Rachel doesn't run back in the Belmont. Would you consider riding Borel back in the Belmont or stick with the winning Preakness rider? Or try to really make a footnote in history and be the first TC winner with three different riders lol?

yeah why not go borel/pino/saymn - then MTB would have to go down as one of the best ever

sdjcom · #**151** 05-07-2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I could make the exact opposite argument. He's been riding the filly all along. He's been on her for the past 6 months. He's ridden her 5 times. He picked up the mount on MTB at the last minute and he's ridden him only once. Why would CB have more loyalty to MTB than RA? RA has been his mount for 6 months. He should stick with RA.

the horse was sold to other connections,and they want to run her in preakness why, no chance for TC, can't be the money. JJ is just an egotistical limelight sucker fish .

sdjcom · #**152** 05-07-2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I don't know, I asked the question yesterday and it's been asked about 10 times since then. Certainly an insider such as yourself understands the way this game works. You do what you can to win. People are acting like Borel owes these people something. He doesn't.

i do understand it's business and Borel has to think of no 1, but i'm old school and a deal is a deal, because the original owners sold herBorel should have stayed with MTD, and the owners did'nt care if Asmussen uses Borel or not.

IrishofNDMan · #**153** 05-07-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

How about if Mine that Bird wins the Preakness and Rachel doesn't run back in the Belmont. Would you consider riding Borel back in the Belmont or stick with the winning Preakness rider? Or try to really make a footnote in history and be the first TC winner with three different riders lol?

I'd think they would say F-Calvin and stick with the preakness winning jockey.

sdjcom · #**154** 05-07-2009, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishofNDMan

I'd think they would say F-Calvin and stick with the preakness winning jockey.

you just might be right, i don't think RA is a gimme. She has beaten only fillies has had it her way, and beat nobody by 20 lenghts la-tee-da, she can be beat by this group, so let's hear it.

gales0678 · #**155** 05-07-2009, 07:19 PM

if RA is this good , it shouldn't matter who riders her , i know steve talked about it earlier already , but surely if this is the greatest filly as people on here have said , any jock s/b to ride her and win next sat .... this thought came from my old bud -

as my old friend dixie porter used to say the horse makes the jock

sdjcom · #**156** 05-07-2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

What deal? By riding MTB in the Derby, did he agree to ride him forever?

come on Hoss he had no mount, he agreeds to ride in derby gets his win and now wants to bale out on their chance for a TC ? To ride a so-called sure thing in RA? he has no commitment to new owners when filly was sold

Danzig · #**157** 05-07-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

In all honesty folks, Calvin Borel was and is a very ordinary rider right up until last weekend. Really this is not as big a deal as it will no doubt be reported.

rachel is a tyrant with her exercise rider, but they said she relaxes for calvin and does what he tells her. i'd have kept him too.

IrishofNDMan · #**158** 05-07-2009, 07:23 PM

This may sound stupid because the value of the preakness, but what are the chances that someone says screw JJ for buying RA and does whatever they can do to ensure that RA has a hell of a time winning the preakness, kind of what they did to Smarty Jones.

gales0678 · #**159** 05-07-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishofNDMan

This may sound stupid because the value of the preakness, but what are the chances that someone says screw JJ for buying RA and does whatever they can do to ensure that RA has a hell of a time winning the preakness, kind of what they did to Smarty Jones.

bailey is will be in baltimore next sat , who knows maybe he comes out of retirement

sdjcom · #**160** 05-07-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I don't think she's a sure thing. She might be a great play against depending on the entries, etc. But I don't understand what is so difficult here. Borel has no loyalty to MTB and he owes his connections nothing. It's probably the other way around, because if Borel doesn't ride him the way he did, I don't think MTB is in the winners circle.

good luck on preakness