Cash for Clunkers Success

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

It sure doesn't seem to me they are just doing something or the sake of it. They have come up with a decent plan. Three of them, in fact, which vary. A decent plans with many components. They've been "looking at it" for the past 20 years.

The details are out there, especially this week when the President held three live Town Halls and went over all the details of the various plans, repeatedly.

I just hope, when it comes out of the final compromise committee, the Senate doesn't screw it up so badly it's useless. They will compromise, and it will be in effect in 2013.

it's not a decent plan. it's an extravagant, expensive plan that will run us further in the wrong direction than we already are. a country teetering on bankruptcy can't afford to add more programs without cutting something, or several somethings.
i've read the details, why do you think i'm so concerned? social security expenditures are about to go thru the roof. we're not out of either war that we were assured we'd be out of-that drain on the treasury continues.

[Danzig]

[quote=Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Or:

The current program is flawed, and Obama's plan (actually "he" doesn't have a plan, the House and the Senate are making up the plans, which is the source of much of the problem) - will make everything much better.

The House plans and Senate plan will be merged in Committee. That's "bipartisanship".

You'll notice that Obama wanted bipartisanship in working out the plans from the start, and the GOP pretty much came up with "don't do anything!" and "death panels". Thanks, guys, great input!

There has been inaction on health care for decades - now is the time to finally get something done.

The program not only will not be a drain on our economy, it will raise healthcare standards and care in our country overall. Small business will benefit with a reduction of monies they must spend on healthcare, or enable them to provide healthcare if they do not now.

The middle class will have ever greater options, and greater coverage, at lower cost.

lol
perhaps it's you that should read the details-or are you just not bothering to read what the CBO has put out?

as for inaction, presidents beginning with teddy roosevelt have attempted to do something. problem is, the issues are more wide-ranging then just providing health care-it's that our fed is trying to be everything to everyone, and we don't have the money.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

it's not a decent plan. it's an extravagant, expensive plan that will run us further in the wrong direction than we already are. a country teetering on bankruptcy can't afford to add more programs without cutting something, or several somethings.
i've read the details, why do you think i'm so concerned? social security expenditures are about to go thru the roof. we're not out of either war that we were assured we'd be out of-that drain on the treasury continues.

There is not currently "one plan", 'Zig, there are three (or four, can't remember if two or three in the House) What details are you so concerned about?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

What does that have to do with what is being proposed in either the House or Senate health care reform bills? Nothing.

we're headed for the same disaster, that's what it had to do with it.

i think you're completely ignoring the price tag attached to the plan. you're also ignoring what i put up from fact check dot org.

[Riot]

[quote=Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

lol
perhaps it's you that should read the details-or are you just not bothering to read what the CBO has put out?

as for inaction, presidents beginning with teddy roosevelt have attempted to do something. problem is, the issues are more wide-ranging then just providing health care-it's that our fed is trying to be everything to everyone, and we don't have the money.

I am well aware of the details, I've watched all three Town Hall meetings this past week, I've read all that Fox and WSJ etc. have said on the other side, and I'm going by what the CBO has said last week.

Regarding other issues, yes, they are more wide-ranging than health care. But health care is on the table now, and everyone associated with it - including Obama - have said they will not sign off on it if it adds to the deficit (if it cannot be self-funding)

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

There is not currently "one plan", 'Zig, there are three (or four, can't remember if two or three in the House) What details are you so concerned about?

medicare, medicaid and the veterans programs are all filled with fraud, waste and abuse. but the govt is going to expand into health care for others- with a price tag in the trillions. according to fact check, much of what obama said in his last press conference was incorrect, including whether people with current insurance they want to keep will be affected.

i'm concerned about the deficit, the economy, and the fact that the govt who keeps making things worse is somehow believed by some to in fact suddenly have the ability to make it all better. i'm concerned that increased taxes and inflation is on the horizon. i'm concerned that the president is not in touch with reality-that he is continuing the trend of spend, spend, spend while ignoring the deficit, it's effect for years to come, and our ability as a country to handle our finances.

in essence, everything i posted, and linked that you evidently ignored.

[Danzig]

[quote=Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

I am well aware of the details, I've watched all three Town Hall meetings this past week, I've read all that Fox and WSJ etc. have said on the other side, and I'm going by what the CBO has said last week.

Regarding other issues, yes, they are more wide-ranging than health care. But health care is on the table now, and everyone associated with it - including Obama - have said they will not sign off on it if it adds to the deficit (if it cannot be self-funding)

then they are wasting their time, and ours, as it will add to the deficit.

[Riot]

medicare, medicaid and the veterans programs are all filled with fraud, waste and abuse. but the govt is going to expand into health care for others- with a price tag in the trillions.

The health care reforms include strong provisions - changes in law - for decreasing fraud and waste in Medicare, Medicad and the Veterans programs. Isn't that a good thing?

The price tag isn't in the trillions. It is one trillion over 10 years.

according to fact check, much of what obama said in his last press conference was incorrect, including whether people with current insurance they want to keep will be affected.

?? The last press conference was some time ago (a month?) what about what is being talked about this week?

There is zero provision in any of the healthcare bills for anybody with current insurance to be forced off it. They may be affected by increased consumer protection, and lower insurance costs.

i'm concerned about the deficit, the economy, and the fact that the govt who keeps making things worse is somehow believed by some to in fact suddenly have the ability to make it all better.

Me, too. But I certainly have seen in the past where some administrations do indeed make things "much better", and some do not.

i'm concerned that increased taxes and inflation is on the horizon.

Well, you've already received a tax cut from Obama, and there is no talk of increasing taxes on anyone making less than $250K a year.

We'll have to see about the inflation.

i'm concerned that the president is not in touch with reality-that he is continuing the trend of spend, spend, spend while ignoring the deficit, it's effect for years to come, and our ability as a country to handle our finances.

I think this President is much more grounded in reality than the last administration. You do realize that Bush did the first big spend last fall, with the first rescue TARP funds?

Seriously - you keep saying stop spending, that no money should have been spent - but what do you think would have happened? I think we'd be in an overt depression right now. You?

Yes, the country is in a deep mess (which didn't start January 20) and this is the man the majority of people chose to get us out of it. We've got 4 years to work with him, until Jeb Bush comes to save us all

[Danzig]

■Obama promised once again that a health care overhaul “will be paid for.” But congressional budget experts say the bills they’ve seen so far would add hundreds of billions of dollars to the deficit over the next decade


what else is there to talk about?



Obama claimed his budget "reduced federal spending over the next 10 years by $2.2 trillion" compared with where it was headed before. Not true. Even figures from his own budget experts don’t support that. The Congressional Budget Office projects a $2.7 trillion increase, not a $2.2 trillion cut.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

■Obama promised once again that a health care overhaul “will be paid for.” But congressional budget experts say the bills they’ve seen so far would add hundreds of billions of dollars to the deficit over the next decade


what else is there to talk about?
.

That the above is talking about the current, fat, in-progress House bills and the Senate bill, which are still filled with every extra each Committee wants.

There has to be something for them to throw out when they come together to hammer out the final reforms bill together.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

That the above is talking about the current, fat, in-progress House bills and the Senate bill, which are still filled with every extra each Committee wants.

There has to be something for them to throw out when they come together to hammer out the final reforms bill together.

lol

yeah, ok-cause we know just how good congress is at saving the taxpayers money, and never, EVER keeping something in a bill that we really don't need.

i don't know what else to say except that we've seen how congress behaves-one need only look at our current spending practices, and the current deficit. that didn't just happen overnight, but is the result of years and years of congress spending more than they have. and it will continue if any version of the current bills pass. it's yet another costly program-with social security and medicare costs getting ready to balloon dramatically because the baby boomers are set to retire, and there are less workers to pay for their retirement.

keep those rose-colored glasses handy, you're going to need them.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

do they have this for horses?

[Cannon Shell]

[quote=Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Or:

The current program is flawed, and Obama's plan (actually "he" doesn't have a plan, the House and the Senate are making up the plans, which is the source of much of the problem) - will make everything much better.

The House plans and Senate plan will be merged in Committee. That's "bipartisanship".

You'll notice that Obama wanted bipartisanship in working out the plans from the start, and the GOP pretty much came up with "don't do anything!" and "death panels". Thanks, guys, great input!

There has been inaction on health care for decades - now is the time to finally get something done.

The program not only will not be a drain on our economy, it will raise healthcare standards and care in our country overall. Small business will benefit with a reduction of monies they must spend on healthcare, or enable them to provide healthcare if they do not now.

The middle class will have ever greater options, and greater coverage, at lower cost.

Do you work in the white house now?

[Cannon Shell]

[quote=Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yeah - death panels!

Only the severely misguided believe that this isnt stage one of a complete takeover of the entire healthcare system. As usual you bring up some wild bs instead of understanding the issue. And it was ironic that after Palin brought up the "death panels", that part of the legislation was quietly eliminated. I guess she was onto something?

[Cannon Shell]

[quote=Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

How will it be a "massive intrusion" when the average "private citizen" will have zero contact with any healthcare reform - other than increased consumer protections - unless they want to?

Are you kidding?

[Riot]

[quote=Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Are you kidding?

No, I'm not kidding. 'Esplain it to us.

[Riot]

[quote=Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Only the severely misguided believe that this isnt stage one of a complete takeover of the entire healthcare system. As usual you bring up some wild bs instead of understanding the issue. And it was ironic that after Palin brought up the "death panels", that part of the legislation was quietly eliminated. I guess she was onto something?

LOL! Good lord - are you kidding me? Get out of your cave.

As far as the faked "death panel" provision (end of life, living will counseling, etc) - it was supported by many a Republican and voted into Medicare in an exact duplicate version just a couple years ago, btw, lead by the GOP, in fact - that was removed by the Senate committee working on that version of the bill before they went on recess.

So - first, the ignorant Palin mischaracterizes the above provision (which she herself has supported in the past, by the way, when presented by the GOP) as a "death panel" - when it's not even still in the Senate version of the bill - then secondly, she takes credit for "eliminating" it when it was no longer there, and hasn't been for some weeks now!

You can't make this stuff up ...

[Riot]

[quote=Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Do you work in the white house now?

No, I don't limit myself to thinking only what Fox News tells me to think.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

it's yet another costly program-with social security and medicare costs getting ready to balloon dramatically because the baby boomers are set to retire, and there are less workers to pay for their retirement..

So, you don't like that all the healthcare reform bill versions address that concern? (preventing that disaster)

[Riot]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

do they have this for horses?

Horses have very expensive and very exclusionary healthcare, with little to no "workman's comp" types of provisions.